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secret_no_03

Let's talk about religion.

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Oh, religion. All societies have practitioners of them dating back as far as man, even before the days of the written word, days of when stories were told only by mouth, perhaps by song. Anyway, the major religions of the world are Christianity and its many affiliates, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism which isn't exactly a religion in the traditional sense i.e. a doctrine, gods, etc, Sikhism, Shintoism (not sure that's even a word.) and probably many more I'm forgetting. It's been said that nothing on earth has caused more bloodshed than religion and there's nothing more divisive, except maybe politics, but yeah. However, in the right hands religion can do plenty of good and bring people together, so it's not all bad. Just remember that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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11 minutes ago, IGM_Oficial said:

I'm Catholic. God is the only reason why I live. The rest is the rest.

What's your opinion on the Catechism Catholic idea of original sin and being able to get rid of sins you've committed throughout the week via confession, the Hail Mary's etc?

Edited by secret_no_03

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I've grown up with jesus stuff all my life, with basically 99.9% of my family being religious. We went to church sometimes when I was a kid, but it wasn't like our lives revolved around God 24/7, so that's basically how I grew out of it, plus other shit in my life happened which changed my perspective of the world entirely, and kinda lean towards Satanism (although I only idolized it, never really studied upon it). I've been atheist ever since, as I don't believe in a higher being taking charge of my life.

 

As of recently, I've been thinking about coverting to Buddhism and becoming more spiritual to combat my demons, but since I never had any real interest in religion other than LeVayan Satanism (lol), I don't even know where to begin.

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4 minutes ago, suji said:

I've grown up with jesus stuff all my life, with basically 99.9% of my family being religious. We went to church sometimes when I was a kid, but it wasn't like our lives revolved around God 24/7, so that's basically how I grew out of it, plus other shit in my life happened which changed my perspective of the world entirely, and kinda lean towards Satanism (although I only idolized it, never really studied upon it).

 

As of recently, I've been thinking about coverting to Buddhism and becoming more spiritual to combat my demons, but since I never had any real interest in religion other than LeVayan Satanism (lol), I don't even know where to begin.

LeVayan is hippie Satanism, you need to join that temple and put a Baphomet statue outside while dressing up like a mix of goth and kote kei. 

Edited by secret_no_03

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8 minutes ago, chipathy said:

raised catholic and was put through catholic school, decided at some point that shit was wack as fuck and i guess for lack of better words ive been atheist for over a decade by now 

Passive atheism or militant atheism? Followed you on Twitter earlier by the way lol

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Agnostic here. Was raised Christian but my family was not too devout, and so I naturally grew out of it (in addition with my own experiences, traumatizing or just distasteful). I remember thinking many times as a child "Why won't [god] answer my prayers? A good parent would never let their child suffer this way".

 

I don' have enough pride to say firmly that a deity/higher power doesn't exist. I'm comfortable with accepting the fact that I don't know—no one does—and that whatever is, just is. 

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10 minutes ago, ahnchc said:

Agnostic here. Was raised Christian but my family was not too devout, and so I naturally grew out of it (in addition with my own experiences, traumatizing or just distasteful). I remember thinking many times as a child "Why won't [god] answer my prayers? A good parent would never let their child suffer this way".

 

I don' have enough pride to say firmly that a deity/higher power doesn't exist. I'm comfortable with accepting the fact that I don't know—no one does—and that whatever is, just is. 

Ah, also known as practical atheism. You don't know, but you don't really care and you're not worried about it either way. The Bible says that if you don't accept the word of God as gospel then you're a heretic, so anyone who doesn't believe in God full-heartedly is pretty much for all intents and purposes an atheist.

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All of this talk has me nostalgic about the weight that was lifted when I gave up religion as I had a fear of the world ending revelations style and once I gave it up all of my religious central anxiety went away.

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1 hour ago, suji said:

I've grown up with jesus stuff all my life, with basically 99.9% of my family being religious. We went to church sometimes when I was a kid, but it wasn't like our lives revolved around God 24/7, so that's basically how I grew out of it, plus other shit in my life happened which changed my perspective of the world entirely, and kinda lean towards Satanism (although I only idolized it, never really studied upon it). I've been atheist ever since, as I don't believe in a higher being taking charge of my life.

 

As of recently, I've been thinking about coverting to Buddhism and becoming more spiritual to combat my demons, but since I never had any real interest in religion other than LeVayan Satanism (lol), I don't even know where to begin.

i wouldn't say a thing on this topic cuz in my humble opinion,religion is not something to "discuss",unless you're talking to someone with a good knowledge on the subject in order to answer your questions and give you some "direction" or whatever you're looking for.but this is basically my story.however,it's been 1 or 2 years that i've been struggling to keep 100% atheist.internet is an amazing tool and i'm kinda adicted to information,so accidentally i ended up watching some stuff recomended by youtube and it explained about the "signs" of the apocalypse going on around the world,stuff that i didn't even imagine that was happening.if i assume that all of that explanation and facts are bullshit i'd be just an ignorant person.you gotta give credits to what makes sense and try to be open minded.

 

currently i've been thinking with myself: it's so easy to be an atheist,i mean...just like a russian philosopher called Dostoiévski said "if god does not exist everything is permitted". What could be more liberating than that?no god,no judgement,no reckoning day,no heaven,no hell...If you die,you'll be gone,end of history,that's it. that would be just perfect.

 

But the thought that there's some kind of "spiritual warfare" 24/7 going on and you'll be judged based on all the choices that you made by an almighty entity who created everything you see is scary.it bothers people,it bothers a lot.Futhermore,that black book isn't an idiot book at all,there's a lot of interesting things in it.if you forget all the religious sphere and try to read that as a regular book you'll find yourself intrigued with some things.All of that based on christianity,can't say much about islam,to me that's just a harsh version of cristianity that looks like a death cult. budhism,hinduism,etc,i only heard some stuff here and there.

(sorry for the big text).

 

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Baptized in PH, raised Roman Catholic by my mother (father's Atheist), best friend was Christian who constantly invited me to his clubs/camps...

 

Too bad I became obsessed with Discovery and The Science Channel w/ childhood idols like Michio Kaku and Stephen Hawking b/c space is (and looks) fucking cool to an 8-year old. Began to understand that the frameworks of our religions could only be realized within history that would only be a sliver of paint on top of the Empire State Building if the building represented earth's (it puts things into perspective.) You can extend that even further to the history of the universe. Learning about general relativity helped me grasp the point of theories like the Big Bang. With that gained perspective, it would be impossible for me to be religious again. It's like when you learn the tooth fairy isn't real or that Santa isn't real. We are so infinitesimally small in the greater universe, if there were some greater power (or structure) it couldn't come close to anything we could imagine or exist with any morality reflective of ours. Simply inconceivable by human standards.

 

Now, I understand the issues with Abrahamic religions that have a central figure that dictates any and all reasoning, but religion itself was inevitable. We can't help but question who we are and what our purpose is, and in many ways religion provides that stability and comfort in the face of uncertainty. Our path to the sciences was not without religion, so I give credit where credit is due. While I can certainly say I'm past religion at this point, I'm not opposed to others practicing as long as their practices don't become hurtful or forceful...

 

Which itself becomes difficult to judge, since children are always indoctrinated into religion by no choice of their own (likely not knowing choices exist.) Then there's the whole, "Which doctrine is the true doctrine?" problem and moral spectrum that all the religions/practices fall on relative to other people w/ their own morals... possibly founded from their own religious beliefs... yadda yadda

 

Well... I don't think there are any right answers, but only ways to keep enough people purposeful and happy in their lives  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. 

 

*I feel like this might come off a bit r/iamverysmart at the beginning with a certain mindset. I don't claim to fully understand subjects, since learning never ends, our endeavors in science never end, and I'm no genius by any standard, haha. The scope of religion v. the scope of science, our reality, is what i'm getting at.

**It's a bit late, so I might come off a bit scatterbrained. I don't mean to offend anyone.

Edited by colorful人生

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3 minutes ago, Euronymous said:

i wouldn't say a thing on this topic cuz in my humble opinion,religion is not something to "discuss",unless you're talking to someone with a good knowledge on the subject in order to answer your questions and give you some "direction" or whatever you're looking for.but this is basically my story.however,it's been 1 or 2 years that i've been struggling to keep 100% atheist.internet is an amazing tool and i'm kinda adicted to information,so accidentally i ended up watching some stuff recomended by youtube and it explained about the "signs" of the apocalypse going on around the world,stuff that i didn't even imagine that was happening.if i assume that all of that explanation and facts are bullshit i'd be just an ignorant person.you gotta give credits to what makes sense and try to be open minded.

 

currently i've been thinking with myself: it's so easy to be an atheist,i mean...just like a russian philosopher called Dostoiévski said "if god does not exist everything is permitted". What could be more liberating than that?no god,no judgement,no reckoning day,no heaven,no hell...If you die,you'll be gone,end of history,that's it. that would be just perfect.

 

But the thought that there's some kind of "spiritual warfare" 24/7 going on and you'll be judged based on all the choices that you made by an almighty entity who created everything you see is scary.it bothers people,it bothers a lot.Futhermore,that black book isn't an idiot book at all,there's a lot of interesting things in it.if you forget all the religious sphere and try to read that as a regular book you'll find yourself intrigued with some things.All of that based on christianity,can't say much about islam,to me that's just a harsh version of cristianity that looks like a death cult. budhism,hinduism,etc,i only heard some stuff here and there.

(sorry for the big text).

 

Okay, a lot to unpack here, but I'll give it a shot. First off, there should be no taboo topics, period. At least in my opinion. The Bible is a decent book, mostly a history book, a good majority of it being creative license and stolen from religions that came before it, especially Egyptian. An omnipotent and omniscient creator wouldn't care if we believed he existed or not because he is all knowing and all powerful, so he knows we'd just be using the brains he gave us to come to our own conclusion. 

 

Islam is a tricky subject as you have to really read the Quran, read into the nuances and read it again. Islam is essentially a religion of peace with roots in feudalism, a lot like Christianity. Buddhism isn't technically a religion as much as it is a way of life, a guide for how to live a prosperous and peaceful life.

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8 minutes ago, colorful人生 said:

Baptized in PH, raised Roman Catholic by my mother, best friend was Christian who constantly invited me to his clubs/camps...

 

Too bad I became obsessed with Discovery and The Science Channel w/ childhood idols like Michio Kaku and Stephen Hawking b/c space is (and looks) fucking cool to an 8-year old. Began to understand that the frameworks of our religions could only be realized within history that would only be a sliver of paint on top of the Empire State Building if the building represented earth's (it puts things into perspective.) You can extend that even further to the history of the universe. Learning about general relativity helped me grasp the point of theories like the Big Bang. With that gained perspective, it would be impossible for me to be religious again. It's like when you learn the tooth fairy isn't real or that Santa isn't real. We are so infinitesimally small in the greater universe, if there were some greater power (or structure) it couldn't come close to anything we could imagine or exist with any morality reflective of ours. Simply inconceivable by human standards.

 

Now, I understand the issues with Abrahamic religions that have a central figure that dictates any and all reasoning, but religion itself was inevitable. We can't help but question who we are and what our purpose is, and in many ways religion provides that stability and comfort in the face of uncertainty. Our path to the sciences was not without religion, so I give credit where credit is due. While I can safely say I'm beyond religion, I'm not opposed to others practicing it as long as it doesn't become hurtful for forceful...

 

Which becomes a sticky subject, since children are always indoctrinated into religion by no choice of their own (likely not knowing choices exist.) Then there's the whole, "Which doctrine is the true doctrine?" problem and moral spectrum that all the religions/practices fall on relative to other people w/ their own morals...

 

Well...I don't think there are any right answers, but only ways to keep enough people purposeful and happy in their lives  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. 

I fucking love all of this. God quakes in the face of science.

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@secret_no_03  just wanted to share a bit of my experience and thoughts because i identified myself with what suji said.

You only refuted what I said based on what you think you believe,and i would just do the same and so on.i can't see the point in it.For me, religion looks like it was meant to be taught and clarified,between speaker and listener. but perhaps that's just not the purpose of the thread and i got it.

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I was raised Christian, but I decided that monotheism made no sense and switched to my own brand of paganism. Essentially, I believe all religions have some truth to extent, but I mostly focus on East Asian deities, and some Hindu Deities.

I am also an animist, which means I believe that spirits reside in everything, and a Shamanist, which means I believe in contacting spirits; Shamanism. Animism and Shamanism tend to be a huge part in pagan religions throughout the world, especially in Southeast Asia. The specific brand I focus on is Vietnamese Len Dong Shamanism (because, well, I'm Viet lol), which is influenced surprisingly not mainly by Chinese forms (which are  mostly dead outside the scope of Taoism), but mainly influenced by indigenous traditions, as well as the traditions of the surrounding tribes such as the Lolo, Zhuang, and Hmong.

However, I also keep myself a little agnostic, just to be safe.

I also used to be confucian, if anyone considers that a religion (technically, it is), but I stopped because I realised how sexist, classist, and toxic it was, and it didn't make sense to combine it with other Southeast Asian religions, which come from mainly Matrilineal peoples, as opposed to more patriarchal Chinese culture (and even then, before the rise of Confucianism, Chinese culture was way more matriarchal. Confucianism, at the time it started, was considered a complete turn around lol)

As for heaven or hell, I don't believe you go to one place based on what you do. I actually believe that concepts like "you go to hell if you are bad" are afterthoughts, and that when you die, your spirit/soul/whatever you call it, is free to do whatever it wants. Do I believe heaven and hell exist? Well, I mean, you're free to go where ever you want, and some places are better than others, so one is bound to be a heaven, and another a hell. But it's way more than just those two.  This is also a pretty animist belief.

 

 

TL;DR - I'm Shamanist, Animist and Taoist, who believes every religion has some truth to it, to some extent.

Edited by Himeaimichu

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My mother was raised religious, but she's not anymore. I guess religion was something her family held dear when she was a kid because her dad was a German Jew and when he was young, needless to say Germany weren't too big on Judaism, hence why he came to England. Anyways, my parents never raised me with any religion and I never have been religious. Don't get me wrong, I find the idea of religion intriguing and I love mythology, but I guess when it comes to what I really believe in, I've just always been more science-minded. That, and it's like politics; I could spend forever researching religions and finding which teachings I liked/didn't like, but in the end, I'd never find one I completely agreed with. The closest one would be Buddhism, but as @secret_no_03 stated, that's not really a religion. I've never believed in some divine purpose we all have collectively or individually, and I think it's up to us to determine our fate. I used to believe in fate to an extent, but I think I stopped when I realised just how much of my life I could control by myself.

 

As for the idea of an afterlife... I'd like to think one or more existed because I've always been terrified of death and everything just ending forever, but I can't say. No-one can. I hope there is one, but I don't think I strictly believe there is.

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8 hours ago, secret_no_03 said:

An omnipotent and omniscient creator wouldn't care if we believed he existed or not because he is all knowing and all powerful, so he knows we'd just be using the brains he gave us to come to our own conclusion. 

 

 

If you say that to a Christian,he would probably laugh at it.they believe that they can use "faith" as a key to get access to their god,based on the thought that he cares very much about humans.So once you saying that he doesn't care if people believe in him or not, you're making all their efforts to convert people and the concept of religion itself devoid of meaning. 

 

Thus,I wouldn't have a guy crucified on my living room wall and people saying that I'll go to hell.

Edited by Manji 卍

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8 hours ago, Euronymous said:

@secret_no_03  just wanted to share a bit of my experience and thoughts because i identified myself with what suji said.

You only refuted what I said based on what you think you believe,and i would just do the same and so on.i can't see the point in it.For me, religion looks like it was meant to be taught and clarified,between speaker and listener. but perhaps that's just not the purpose of the thread and i got it.

I just want to clarify that my response to @sujiwas entirely based in satire.

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5 hours ago, Himeaimichu said:

I was raised Christian, but I decided that monotheism made no sense and switched to my own brand of paganism. Essentially, I believe all religions have some truth to extent, but I mostly focus on East Asian deities, and some Hindu Deities.

I am also an animist, which means I believe that spirits reside in everything, and a Shamanist, which means I believe in contacting spirits; Shamanism. Animism and Shamanism tend to be a huge part in pagan religions throughout the world, especially in Southeast Asia. The specific brand I focus on is Vietnamese Len Dong Shamanism (because, well, I'm Viet lol), which is influenced surprisingly not mainly by Chinese forms (which are  mostly dead outside the scope of Taoism), but mainly influenced by indigenous traditions, as well as the traditions of the surrounding tribes such as the Lolo, Zhuang, and Hmong.

However, I also keep myself a little agnostic, just to be safe.

I also used to be confucian, if anyone considers that a religion (technically, it is), but I stopped because I realised how sexist, classist, and toxic it was, and it didn't make sense to combine it with other Southeast Asian religions, which come from mainly Matrilineal peoples, as opposed to more patriarchal Chinese culture (and even then, before the rise of Confucianism, Chinese culture was way more matriarchal. Confucianism, at the time it started, was considered a complete turn around lol)

As for heaven or hell, I don't believe you go to one place based on what you do. I actually believe that concepts like "you go to hell if you are bad" are afterthoughts, and that when you die, your spirit/soul/whatever you call it, is free to do whatever it wants. Do I believe heaven and hell exist? Well, I mean, you're free to go where ever you want, and some places are better than others, so one is bound to be a heaven, and another a hell. But it's way more than just those two.  This is also a pretty animist belief.

 

 

TL;DR - I'm Shamanist, Animist and Taoist, who believes every religion has some truth to it, to some extent.

That's really interesting. Forgive me if the first thing that comes to mind when I read Shamanist is the manga/anime Shaman King that I grew up watching on Saturday morning, and Animism is interesting. If I recall, which I might be wrong since I just woke up, but an aspect of Japanese Shinto is that not only are there specific deities for crops and such, but a literal spirit inside of everything from a statue to a shoe.

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4 hours ago, Gesu said:

My mother was raised religious, but she's not anymore. I guess religion was something her family held dear when she was a kid because her dad was a German Jew and when he was young, needless to say Germany weren't too big on Judaism, hence why he came to England. Anyways, my parents never raised me with any religion and I never have been religious. Don't get me wrong, I find the idea of religion intriguing and I love mythology, but I guess when it comes to what I really believe in, I've just always been more science-minded. That, and it's like politics; I could spend forever researching religions and finding which teachings I liked/didn't like, but in the end, I'd never find one I completely agreed with. The closest one would be Buddhism, but as @secret_no_03 stated, that's not really a religion. I've never believed in some divine purpose we all have collectively or individually, and I think it's up to us to determine our fate. I used to believe in fate to an extent, but I think I stopped when I realised just how much of my life I could control by myself.

 

As for the idea of an afterlife... I'd like to think one or more existed because I've always been terrified of death and everything just ending forever, but I can't say. No-one can. I hope there is one, but I don't think I strictly believe there is.

To clarify, I think the word you're searching for is theology which would be the study of religion.

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1 minute ago, secret_no_03 said:

That's really interesting. Forgive me if the first thing that comes to mind when I read Shamanist is the manga/anime Shaman King that I grew up watching on Saturday morning, and Animism is interesting. If I recall, which I might be wrong since I just woke up, but an aspect of Japanese Shinto is that not only are there specific deities for crops and such, but a literal spirit inside of everything from a statue to a shoe.

Yup. Shinto is pretty much a textbook example of Animism, and in the past, Shamanism. Originally, Shrine Maidens were Shamans who contacted spirits, similar to the role of Korean, Siberian, and Mongolian Shamans today, however, now they basically just preform fossilised rituals and dances that once were intended to contact spirits, but nowadays are just mainly because tradition.

I actually used to consider myself Shinto, and I do still implement a lot of Shinto, and general practices from the whole Korean-Siberian culture sphere into my practices, but I stopped calling myself such because people were quick to accuse me of being a weeb lol. Plus, my main focus has mostly shifted to Southeast Asia, being that my family comes from there.

In general, Asian religions have a lot of similarities and parallels, that are a mixture of both influences from China, and practices that were probably around when humans first conquered Asia. I could go on into more detail, since I'm passionate about this, but it would be a huge infodump lol.

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I don't believe in any human notion of a god, but I'm open to the idea of a higher universal force. I was raised Christian and what I hated the most was being dragged to church. People getting exorcised isn't something kids should be exposed to tbh, so my relationship with religion is a bit weird. I love blasphemy and religious taboo stories even though it's scary, I suppose it's a thrill for me.

 

I used to pray everyday in my early teens,  when I realised I did it out of fear, I was freed. Worship out of fear of punishment just doesn't make sense, after all this God is supposed to be all loving. Another thing that makes no sense is a passage in the bible in which God says we shouldn't worship other idols because he is a jealous god. Is there anything more human and flawed than jealousy? Doesn't sound like an omnipotent, omniscient all powerful being to me. Not to mention how petty God is in the old testament, then someone just goes and changes the story like that into the new testament? So which is it? Lol no thanks. 

 

If people need religion to get them through the day, that's cool. But most use it to justify their prejudices. The teachings at heart are good, but humans of course, shit all over it. That's why churches are cesspools for some of the worst scum on Earth, its the easiest way to manipulate and use poor people who use faith to survive. See: Brazilian churches selling holy socks and holy brooms for hundreds of $, bullying those who can't offer their salary to the church. 

 

Still, I'm interested in religions and love learning about them. Some stories in the bible are actually quite entertaining.

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