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Shadowtear

Confirming the legitimacy of X JAPAN demo tapes and leaks

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Let me start of by saying that i know there has probally been many debates regarding this topic.

However, i wish to bring forward this topic in question again to make the information more clear and less confusion.

 

There are a pletra of cassettes for sale on yahoo, puresound and other locations claiming to be X demo tapes.

These tapes are mainly released under the headline "SEXY SCANDAL LOVE VIOLENCE" and "PSYCEDELIC VIOLENCE CRIME OF VISUAL SHOCK" followed by the live stage w/ date.

Its safe to claim that most if not all of these them are straight up fake, ripped from live performances recordings, vhs recordings and other means.

However, it is not unlikely to assume that they have had live-distributed cassettes, which isn't uncommon.


Determine the legitimacy of releases?

Obviously a hard task, we are speaking of a time frame mid 1982 to 1989.

We can only really determin if its real or fake, based on what information is officially written down, or even listening to the cassette in question, to hear its quality or with spectral analysers.

The only other method would be to ask members of the band, which has proven unsuccessvol.

 

The Goal

Making a list of all cassettes confirmed to be actually released, and not fake bootlegs.

I would like to dig more into this with other members on this forum that has information or oppinions regarding this.
And please. refrain from claiming wiki information as legit.

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

Known legit cassette releases:

 

Possible legit tape releases but not fully confirmed: (could be leaks or fake)

  • I'll KILL YOU ('84, '85 released? possible 2 legit tapes.)
  • X LIVE
  • Endless Dream

 

Leaks, but not officially released:

  • ART OF LIFE (early demo leak) (27:41 minutes instrumental studio recording track)
  • Jun's Tape (4 tracks, studio recording, title is not confirmed accurate)
  • feel me tonight (2/3 tracks, studio recordings, title is not confirmed accurate)

 

Other releases, unknown legitimacy:

  • INSTALL (live recording)
  • Steal Your Heart (live recording) (supposed bootleg tape: [1985.10.04] SEXY SCANDAL LOVE VIOLENCE 神楽坂EXPLOSION)

 

Edited by Shadowtear

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There are over 20 tapes that have the name SEXY SCANDAL LOVE VIOLENCE, then a date, then a concert location. These are selections of live recordings. It is unknown whether these were officially recorded by the band, or by fans. The SSLV tapes are from 1986-1987. Maybe some 85 but very rarely. Starting from 1988, the SSLV slogan changed to PSYCHEDELIC VIOLENCE CRIME OF VISUAL SHOCK, many tapes are known to exist like that too, for example PSYCHEDELIC VIOLENCE CRIME OF VISUAL SHOCK 1990.4.2 日本武道館 which is just laying there in my collection, with no knowledge if it was ever real or not.

 

About I'LL KILL YOU, three versions are known to exist, but I don't know which are real and which not. One with the typical dead people b/w cover like on the single, one that is similar, but all in red tones, and another that is black with less dead pictures, an alternate version. The b/w and black are on Discogs, not the red one. The red one and black are listed on Puresound. The b/w version is supposedly the original from 1984, which would make it their first demo tape, if you don't count three known high school tapes that are known to exist somewhere.

 

What is notable about some of the SEXY SCANDAL LOVE VIOLENCE tapes, a ton have exactly the same cover, just different information on the tape, the date and venue it was recorded at. But there's a good number of SEXY SCANDAL LOVE VIOLENCE tapes that have covers, mostly suggestive sexual pictures or a band picture, both very distorted. Some tapes are exactly the same but have two different cover versions, it's all extremely confusing.

 

The 85 LIVE (which you call X LIVE) might be real, since it is mentioned on wiki's, but again, I can't trust wikis

 

I've seen many more tapes that are not even listed in Puresound history or mentioned anywhere. So we can safely say AT LEAST 50 different tapes are knon to EXIST, I'm not saying officially. It's such a confusing mess. Yoshiki would do everyone and their wallets a huge favor if he for once made a list of official tapes with pictures lol.

 

Something else that is confusing: A lot of these tapes MIGHT be real or official, but how do we know which tapes are genuine, and which are photocopies by bootleggers? Makes it even harder.

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My little theory;

 

1) I'll KILL YOU, X Live/Endless dream, Longing are real demos. X Live/Endless dream even has a pricing on it as I know. Personally I've got black I'll KILL YOU, it's labeled NOT FOR SALE and has all X's lineup written on the sleeve with their real names.

2) All of these bootleg live tapes labeled as SEXY SCANDAL LOVE VIOLENCE or PSYCHEDELIC VIOLENCE CRIME OF VISUAL SHOCK have "not for sale" label on them, also some of them got "For SEXYSCANDALOUS Fans Only!" inscription on their sleeves, some of them got the band's photo. I don't really know who has been spreading these tapes, the band or some hardcore fans. Most (or all?) of them have dates before the release of X's first album.

3) Weird tapes such as "Feel me tonight" which contains some fragments of Yoshiki's silly tries to sing "Stab me in the back" and "Feel me tonight". Or "Install" tape which contains the titled song in live recording. Or Jun's tape from 1986 where he plays instrumental versions of his songs composed for X ("Only way", "Right now", etc.) on guitar with drum machine beating along. These tapes don't look similar to their demos or bootleg tapes, it's just some weird shit, I don't really know for real why they exist.

 

Anyway, all these tapes are pretty listenable so it makes possible to listen to some rare and unreleased nice metal songs.

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17 minutes ago, Naaaaani said:

My little theory;

 

1) I'll KILL YOU, X Live/Endless dream, Longing are real demos. X Live/Endless dream even has a pricing on it as I know. Personally I've got black I'll KILL YOU, it's labeled NOT FOR SALE and has all X's lineup written on the sleeve with their real names.

2) All of these bootleg live tapes labeled as SEXY SCANDAL LOVE VIOLENCE or PSYCHEDELIC VIOLENCE CRIME OF VISUAL SHOCK have "not for sale" label on them, also some of them got "For SEXYSCANDALOUS Fans Only!" inscription on their sleeves, some of them got the band's photo. I don't really know who has been spreading these tapes, the band or some hardcore fans. Most (or all?) of them have dates before the release of X's first album.

3) Weird tapes such as "Feel me tonight" which contains some fragments of Yoshiki's silly tries to sing "Stab me in the back" and "Feel me tonight". Or "Install" tape which contains the titled song in live recording. Or Jun's tape from 1986 where he plays instrumental versions of his songs composed for X ("Only way", "Right now", etc.) on guitar with drum machine beating along. These tapes don't look similar to their demos or bootleg tapes, it's just some weird shit, I don't really know for real why they exist.

 

Anyway, all these tapes are pretty listenable so it makes possible to listen to some rare and unreleased nice metal songs.

 

1) I'LL KILL YOU would be the main one i would assume being legit, but its hard to assume this because of fakes being made in the first place.

Your reffering to the I'LL KILL YOU cassette with the second track being "Break The Darkness" i recall?

I have not heard this tape in person, and only seen it on discogs, but you can confirm that all 3 tracks are the same quality of creation and not taken from other releases? (since i know you can listen to them propperly)

It still begs the question how legit the grey cover is with the vitnam war victems on it, hearing the tape it sounds like more propper recordings.

Could i ask your reasoning for X LIVE/Endless dream being real? regarding pricing, this could also be easly faked.

 

2) The band images i have noticed aswell which have no direct source, i assumed that it where fans who had taken photos and distorded them, these images never striked me as official.

Then again, it could very well have been the band themself, its hard to tell not being able to have and hear them in a deck.

 

3) I'm not too certain regarding these tapes either, i assumed that some of these are simply leaks, weither by the band members or other people, not to mention that looking at the tapes they look like bootlegs.

I cant think of any other reasons why there would be for instance a track of yoshiki singing excisting.

Regarding other sound releases, i do not know X JAPAN well enough to know live recordings on youtube or other sources for these releases.

Edited by Shadowtear

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7 minutes ago, Shadowtear said:

Your reffering to the I'LL KILL YOU cassette with the second track being "Break The Darkness" i recall?

No, I've got the black one with corpses and three tracks: "I'll kill you", "We are X" and "Stop bloody rain". All three recordings have same quality and sounding, not live but not a professional record though. Seems legit. The other version of "I'LL KILL YOU" that you mentioned with dead heads on it is a promo for their first single from 1985, "I'll kill you/Break the darkness", as I know.

16 minutes ago, Shadowtear said:

Could i ask your reasoning for X LIVE/Endless dream being real?

I can't remember exactly where I have read about it, so I can't confirm it's 100% truth. As for sound, I don't have them personally but as I can judge from rips that I have, quality of recording is rather similar to their bootleg tapes.

25 minutes ago, Shadowtear said:

i assumed that it where fans who had taken photos and distorded them

I've got only one tape with the band photo, it's from 1985 and has some ancient members on it. The image doesn't look like it was distorted on PC or whatever else, it's just looks like a low resolution printing. Also, this tape contains their song "Steal your heart", I don't know any other recordings of it.

 

31 minutes ago, Shadowtear said:

I'm not too certain regarding these tapes either, i assumed that some of these are simply leaks, weither by the band members or other people, not to mention that looking at the tapes they look like bootlegs.

I can say only about their "Feel me tonight" tape with Yoshiki's singing because I've only have it. it looks exactly same as bootleg tapes but X's logo slightly differs and has small "feel me tonight" writing on it. And also the date, 1985. Very low quality recording, you can barely recognise the fragments of the songs and Yoshiki's voice. No idea why has it been recorded.

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I don't understand about which I'LL KILL YOU you own or are talking about. Both have dead corpses, and contain some black.

R-9214765-1476798104-4959.jpeg.jpg

This one contains I'LL KILL YOU, WE ARE X and BLOODY RAIN.

This one seems to have ben released in 1984 before the I'LL KILL YOU/BREAK THE DARKNESS single LP



R-10846176-1505253157-1316.jpeg.jpg

Do you mean you own this one? It's another one, but I don't know if it's real or not, but something of it smells kinda fakeish to me. I have a copy of this one too but I've got no idea at all if it's fake or not.

 

Discogs lists it as real though, but you can't really trust Discogs in this case.

Edited by Cantavanda

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5 minutes ago, Naaaaani said:

No, I've got the black one with corpses and three tracks: "I'll kill you", "We are X" and "Stop bloody rain". All three recordings have same quality and sounding, not live but not a professional record though. Seems legit. The other version of "I'LL KILL YOU" that you mentioned with dead heads on it is a promo for their first single from 1985, "I'll kill you/Break the darkness", as I know.

 

I can't remember exactly where I have read about it, so I can't confirm it's 100% truth. As for sound, I don't have them personally but as I can judge from rips that I have, quality of recording is rather similar to their bootleg tapes.

 

I've got only one tape with the band photo, it's from 1985 and has some ancient members on it. The image doesn't look like it was distorted on PC or whatever else, it's just looks like a low resolution printing. Also, this tape contains their song "Steal your heart", I don't know any other recordings of it.

 

I can say only about their "Feel me tonight" tape with Yoshiki's singing because I've only have it. it looks exactly same as bootleg tapes but X's logo slightly differs and has small "feel me tonight" writing on it. And also the date, 1985. Very low quality recording, you can barely recognise the fragments of the songs and Yoshiki's voice. No idea why has it been recorded.

 

Yea, thats the only tape i'm familiar with that you have, i would assume that one is real.

 

And regarding your tape with "Steal your heart", its interesting that you have it. i indeed do not know any source for it elswhere.

 

In either case, i had the theory that atleast 1 of each of these set of tapes "SEXY SCANDAL LOVE VIOLENCE", "PSYCEDELIC VIOLENCE CRIME OF VISUAL SHOCK" and other styles, that atleast 1 of them is actually legit, and others are copies from them.

Its hard to claim anything in any case.

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7 minutes ago, Cantavanda said:

This one contains I'LL KILL YOU, WE ARE X and BLOODY RAIN.

So, this is the one I have. Not so hard to understand, I suppose.

8 minutes ago, Cantavanda said:

Discogs lists it as real though, but you can't really trust Discogs in this case.

And never had this one in my hands, only seen it on auctions a couple of times.

 

6 minutes ago, Shadowtear said:

Its hard to claim anything in any case.

True. I think only band's members can exactly confirm or not anything, current (lol no) or past members from the indie times.

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I also have a copy of the "1984" one, but that first tape seems so rare to me that I'm almost sure I have a bootleg lol. I didn't pay that much to me, not an astronomical amount I would guess the real tape would go for. Do you think your "1984" X JAPAN tape is a real one? Or is there a big possibility of bootleggery?

https://www.discogs.com/X-Ill-Kill-You/release/10840756

Even Discogs has a page for the unofficial one.

It's hard to see any differences though. Maybe the cassette media itself is the difference, but we don't have a picture of the media of the real 1984 one so it's hard to compare.

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6 minutes ago, Naaaaani said:

True. I think only band's members can exactly confirm or not anything, current (lol no) or past members from the indie times.

 

The problem with that is that it that most guys have only been in X for a short ammount of time, so even if 1 would be to talk, it still wont give you complete information.

The best lead would have been TAIJI, but yea thats kinda impossible since 2011.

 

4 minutes ago, Cantavanda said:

I also have a copy of the "1984" one, but that first tape seems so rare to me that I'm almost sure I have a bootleg lol. I didn't pay that much to me, not an astronomical amount I would guess the real tape would go for. Do you think your "1984" X JAPAN tape is a real one? Or is there a big possibility of bootleggery?

https://www.discogs.com/X-Ill-Kill-You/release/10840756

Even Discogs has a page for the unofficial one.

It's hard to see any differences though. Maybe the cassette media itself is the difference, but we don't have a picture of the media of the real 1984 one so it's hard to compare.

 

He just said he owns it and that the tracks are clear enough.

As well as the contents of this tape has been clear.

Edited by Shadowtear

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19 minutes ago, Cantavanda said:

Do you think your "1984" X JAPAN tape is a real one? Or is there a big possibility of bootleggery?

I don't really care much, it contains songs that I wanted to hear when I had bought it, so it's ok for me. I can't remember how much I paid, it was near 5 years ago when I was a big X fan. You can look at it, took a photo just for you.

22 minutes ago, Shadowtear said:

The problem with that is that it that most guys have only been in X for a short ammount of time, so even if 1 would be to talk, it still wont give you complete information.

I think Jun could say something about it, he stayed with X pretty long. He might be still active as a metal guitarist, idk exactly.

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6 hours ago, Shadowtear said:

And regarding your tape with "Steal your heart", its interesting that you have it. i indeed do not know any source for it elswhere.

"Steal Your Heart" was played at the Atsushi and Terry birthday live at 1985.10.04 only (or at least, it only seems to be bootlegged from that gig as that gig is the only one which seems to be shared). The tape is probably a bootleg tape from that gig.

 

Also, if the black/red-jacketed aren't bootlegs, the "alternate jacket" version probably is. It consists, according to Puresound, the two tracks from the single and a live take of "X". Especially suspect when "We Are X" was the precursor to "X", and was released on the other versions of the demo tape at about the same time.

 

"Install" is a bootleg as the sound quality is stolen from a gig audience recording, it seems (I'll update when I know what gig). The same, probably, for tapes like "Kurenai", where the audio seems to be stolen from the VHS versions of tracks.

 

I highly doubt that the ubiquitous live recordings are real, official, releases, due to the jackets only varying a little, there being no sale price and no value to distribute them for the band, really (pressing tapes is kinda expensive).

 

I have a feeling that "Feel Me Tonight" is an early practice version for the members only, as the lyrics that Yoshiki mumbles differ from any bootlegs I have (which all are from after early 1985, when the tape seems to be from). There also is no value in releasing the tape for the band.

 

"Jun's Tape" is a leaked, internal, practice tape that an acquaintance to Jun allegedly partly dubbed and leaked.

 

It is also important to say that the "X LIVE/LIVE 85" tape seems to have a lyrics card. This, I believe, helps confirm that the release is official.

Edited by Laurence02

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5 hours ago, Naaaaani said:

I don't really care much, it contains songs that I wanted to hear when I had bought it, so it's ok for me. I can't remember how much I paid, it was near 5 years ago when I was a big X fan. You can look at it, took a photo just for you.

I think Jun could say something about it, he stayed with X pretty long. He might be still active as a metal guitarist, idk exactly.

I do wonder if that tape is from when it says it was, whether officially or bootlegged. According to Vintage Cassettes, SONY didn't sell the tape with that design until 1985.

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3 hours ago, Biopanda said:

I do wonder if that tape is from when it says it was, whether officially or bootlegged. According to Vintage Cassettes, SONY didn't sell the tape with that design until 1985.

According to an acquaintance, there are lots of bootlegs dating from the early 90s.

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3 hours ago, Biopanda said:

I do wonder if that tape is from when it says it was, whether officially or bootlegged. According to Vintage Cassettes, SONY didn't sell the tape with that design until 1985.

 

The site you linked however, shows a Sony HF60 cassette, the one used for I'LL KILL YOU is a Sony HF30.

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25 minutes ago, Shadowtear said:

 

The site you linked however, shows a Sony HF60 cassette, the one used for I'LL KILL YOU is a Sony HF30.

They often don't show each time variation, but rather just a tape from each line (HF, HF-S, HF-ES etc). If you compare the designs of the various years though, you can see that they didn't use that sticker design until 85.

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5 hours ago, Laurence02 said:

It consists, according to Puresound, the two tracks from the single and a live take of "X"

I suppose it could be something for promotion purposes, whatever.

 

5 hours ago, Laurence02 said:

It is also important to say that the "X LIVE/LIVE 85" tape seems to have a lyrics card. This, I believe, helps confirm that the release is official.

Yes, you are right, I've forgot about it. It really makes sense.

 

Btw, it's same for the band BOOWY, there are tons of bootlegs of the same time and I highly doubt they released them officially.

Edited by Naaaaani

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11 hours ago, Naaaaani said:

I don't really care much, it contains songs that I wanted to hear when I had bought it, so it's ok for me. I can't remember how much I paid, it was near 5 years ago when I was a big X fan. You can look at it, took a photo just for you.

Wow! That seems much realer then my copy of the tape hahaha. But you're right, bootleg or not, it has the songs.

Edited by Cantavanda

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