Dir en grey

[Kelrya 145]

 

[Pretsy 1343]

4 hours ago, orange~ said:

^ yea, he looks way younger this way. He was going towards the oyaji yakuza look fast. This looks a lot better imo ^^

 

Lately I have been listening to ARCHE. I'm a bit ashamed it's taken me this long to get into this album, as I initially dismissed the album as overly complicated nonsense after listening through it for the first time. Also because I haven't been a big fan of Kyo's deeper growls and angel choir shrieks introduced with UROBOROS, which are the reason I haven't liked their albums that much.

 

After so many people talked highly of this album, I gave it a new chance - and  damn~! It's quickly becoming my favourite diru album. It's really back to more basic kind of Dir en Grey, maybe the most commercial and catchy tracks are missing compared to their earlier albums, but song structures are more easy on my ear still. ARCHE has really sparked my interest towards DeG once again, yay ^^

Here's the exact problem of that album:

 

- "Arche wasn't meant to be the "next stage" of their genre progression". I just cited the common view most fans and anti-fans truly share when discussing this album in general. Why are we rejoicing about them taking more steps behind instead of adopting new musical "visage" for their repertoire? "Evolution of Dir en grey" - contradicting much? Didn't we already get "basic kind of DEG" in the past already though? Let it sink in for a while. 

 

- Song structures may be easy but that's where it falls down once you notice their disregard of commercial/catchy values in their art and practice: it's much easier to rule it out as one kind of blandfest.

 

- Okay, it may have sparked your interest towards other DEG efforts again. But here's the riddle: Is it a genuine, standalone effort for you or just a "tool" for enjoying DEG once again? We have seen how these "reminders" have been washed away by other similar gargantuan repertoires of other household names and so on (Slayer, as a mainstream rock/metal case in point)

 

I wonder if someone else managed to spot this illogical chain of events post-Uroboros through our usual "this song X is great and this song Y is forgivable = this album is great" -bias.

[orange~ 387]

I'm rejoicing about ARCHE because I haven't been that big of a fan of their later work. Of course it's not to say that I wouldn't have liked wherever they would have gone and evolved without this return to basics.

 

Also I don't think ARCHE sounds 1:1 like their older material. They're still using their new tricks. Especially Kyo's singing melodies have changed dramatically since UROBOROS onwards, that alone makes this album sound unlike anything from their classic days.

 

Carm, I take you're not the biggest fan of ARCHE?

[Saishu 1589]

Arche is a lot more palatable to anyone that may have jumped ship at some point in the last 8-10 years, especially to anyone that just couldn't deal with DSS. 

[Pretsy 1343]

47 minutes ago, orange~ said:

I'm rejoicing about ARCHE because I haven't been that big of a fan of their later work. Of course it's not to say that I wouldn't have liked wherever they would have gone and evolved without this return to basics.

 

Also I don't think ARCHE sounds 1:1 like their older material. They're still using their new tricks. Especially Kyo's singing melodies have changed dramatically since UROBOROS onwards, that alone makes this album sound unlike anything from their classic days.

 

Carm, I take you're not the biggest fan of ARCHE?

At first I was as biased about this release as any other Dir fan which anticipated for "much simpler, catchier and back-to-the-roots-ier" package, but as I put it already - this is where I felt that I contradicted my tastes. So yes, ARCHE unfortunately is not up my alley in the wake of my renewed perceptions on how I wanted to see DEG to progress in the first place (i.e. not being retrospective again). Being retrospective doesn't mean that you'd go 1:1 with your older material - but using it as the sole reference instead of leaving more room for new ambitions and directions? You don't evolve simply by redefining things from your past, right?

 

What @Saishusaid MAY have been the marketing goal of this album (i.e. to salvage possible post-DSS damage). However, isn't this too tacky at this point? Should they really be very dependent on the "what sells well in our situation" (i.e. being pseudo-artsy with plastered one-off choruses) instead of "what we are able to do well" (i.e. utilizing their commercial rock status and move on with accomplishable, yet very interesting results)? My points are not genuinely objective btw - but I thought it would be very nice to discuss our personal perceptions of "so where are we now with DEG"  instead of comparing our  DEG-o-prog and avant-DEG cocks ("THEY NEED TO GO WACKO!!", "NO I WANT THEM TO GO THALL DJENT DJENT1!!")  like they do on YT.

 

God knows whether the out-of-nowhere decisions akin to MOAB being a very surprising move post-WtD will take their place next year as well (ANOTHER big year for DEG btw).

Edited July 2, 2016 by Alroy

[Undead burger 24]

Arche is not their best album but it's not their worst (based on my personal taste, my least favourite is Kiso); i've been listening to them for 9 years now, starting with Zan (the first version obviously). As a new fan, i had a hard time figuring out what the hell was going on when I listened to TMOAB who was their latest realise at this time in 2007 XD 13 years old me was like "wtf these are the same guys who were wearing make up and heels a few minutes ago in the other video?"

 

I like arche, I really do. IMO you enjoy this album a lot more during a live than on a CD. It's a bit shy, less complex and progressive-ish than DSS but to me, it's a transition just like TMOAB before. I feel that this album is more about emotions than the others. 

 

After listening to utafumi, I'm glad that they seem to go a bit more agressive this time than it was on Arche.

[Puriwate 28]

Also glad utafumi seems to have kyo sing in a reasonable range for live performances. No more of urokos meowmeowmeow type intros please. 

[Saishu 1589]

I don't think the aim for Arche was "what sells more", but more "let's write some songs we can actually play live." Because, honestly, big a fan as I am, very few of the lives I've heard from the DSS era were anything short of a disaster.  I know some Arche songs haven't translated well live, either, but not on the same level as DSS. 

[Undead burger 24]

Most of the time the musicians are doing great I guess (except for kaoru lately with his hands problems). If the song is fucked up live I have to blame Kyo. Even if I adore him as an artist, sometimes (like on uroko the 2nd day on the arche dvd) he's doing too much and he is ruining the song...

TMOAB era lives were kinda terrible too, and if you watch a video of DEG live during a festival it will be awful no matter what. They always have technical issues during festivals...

I didn't had the chance to see them live with my own eyes during the DSS era so I can only relate with the DVD :/  During their American tour (I'm talking about ghoul here) they had techincal issues too so it doesn't help either to give a good show to the fans attending the concert... They are human after all, and if there is technical issues it's normal to loose your temper and fuck up. IDK wich performance you are talking about @Saishu, can you tell me more or do you relate to the same things as me?

 

But for Arche, I was present to their Paris show last year and it was impressive. Not flawless but still good.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Undead burger

[Saishu 1589]

Last time I saw them live (2012? Whenever the US leg of the DSS tour was) it was mostly a problem of five dudes trying to recreate material in a live setting that was never actually played as such until the tour. A lot of songs sounded thin, almost empty. It was a rough sounding era on par with 2005-2006 when Kyo would run out of breath and drop a good chunk of the lyrics. 

[Undead burger 24]

Oh, I didn't knew about that in 2012. I'm from Europe so I'm not really aware of what's going on overseas ^^'

They didn't spend enough time on rehersal then if I understand?
 

[Saishu 1589]

According to interviews, when they were writing and recording for DSS the band never actually worked together. They would each create parts and send them back and forth via email and such. The songs were then pieced together that way. There was never any point where they rehearsed the songs all together in the same room until it was time to play live. Supposedly they changed that for Arche. 

[nekkichi 6042]

am I the only person disappointed in utafumi not being.... fast enough?

 

I was expecting another machiavellism or something similar to zan tempo-wise, and this sounds like an average Deg single

(it also gives me a lot of filth flashbacks by some reasons?? probably shinya's basic sounding drumming)

 

17 hours ago, Carmelzors said:

 ("THEY NEED TO GO WACKO!!", "NO I WANT THEM TO GO THALL DJENT DJENT1!!")  like they do on YT.

bless u for reminding to make this thing

Edited July 3, 2016 by nekkichi
MH's new link parsing is a mess

[Puriwate 28]

Sounds pretty fucking fast to me. I can almost not translate kyos screams. Hes singing it in English right? Or Hungarian??? Yeah no dude its fast enough.....

[Saishu 1589]

Kyo is getting the words out fast, but the music itself isn't particularly fast compared to other songs like Zan or Uroko. It's about the same tempo as the "fast" part in Unraveling (the first part of the guitar solo). 

[nekkichi 6042]

not to mention anger-ridden chanteuse has pretty shitty enunciation, engrish or not

 

[Saishu 1589]

Seriously. You'd think at this point he'd have a better handle in English. 

 

At least we're past the days of "FOOCHA FOOCHA" though. 

[Puriwate 28]

Foocha XD

[Undead burger 24]

Kyo' ensglish is priceless.

Thx for your answer Saishu. I've read about that once, I misunderstood the whole thing and tought that they were using this method for everything not only DSS. That's explain a lot!

[Bear 1817]

I'm quite surprised by Utafumi. First impression is great, and I must admit that I get a strong Dir en grey ano 2002-05 feeling from the track.

[Atreides 454]

I have actually been meaning to get back into Dir en Grey, the last album I heard though was Withering to Death when it was released. Could someone point me in the right direction? I don't know where to start.

[Puriwate 28]

Uroboros and arche

[nekkichi 6042]

4 hours ago, Atreides said:

I have actually been meaning to get back into Dir en Grey, the last album I heard though was Withering to Death when it was released. Could someone point me in the right direction? I don't know where to start.

sure

[Atreides 454]

Unless I'm missing something, this is just the link to the downloads forum, which I am well aware of. What I was more specifically getting at is can anyone tell me their favorite albums that came out after Withering to Death?  10 years is a long time to drop away from a band, I want to hear what others favorite albums are, which I will then obtain and listen to.  Thanks for the response though!

[Puriwate 28]

Uroboros and arche are my favorites