Your thoughts on the Ghost in the Shell adaptation?

[Deathtopi4 428]

I'm not even into Ghost in the Shell but I do think it's extremely silly to have white actors playing Japanese characters in a Japanese setting.... And if they are going to have white actors, at least pick people who are equal to the best white cosplayers appearance wise. Like the white guy that's apparently going to be playing Light Yagami in that new movie doesn't even look like Light at all....

[Zeus 7997]

Someone explain this travesty.

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/news/a44006/the-ghost-in-the-shell-cgi-tests-scarlett-johansson/

 

A lot of people were really pissed when Paramount Pictures cast irrefutably white actress Scarlett Johansson as the Japanese lead in the live-action adaptation of cyberpunk anime/manga classic Ghost in the Shell. So what did they do to placate the pitchfork-wielding, Twitter-fueld lynch mob? Try to use CGI to make her look more Asian. Allegedly.

If this is true I'm 300% done. brb dying of laughter. I might just go to see what Scarlet Johann-san looks like.

[doombox 4421]

[Original Saku 1593]

Yeah I read about that yesterday, pretty crazy... They supposedly are denying that they were using the CGI on scarlet but instead admitted they were using it on other actors to make them look more Asian... which doesn't make no sense. Sounds like they got caught red handed and don't want to own up fully so instead they are trying to bullshit xD

 

but yeah regardless of whether this is true or not I'm done hoping this film will be good at all... it's gonna be awful and I know it

[Jigsaw9 6783]

Just gonna leave this here...

 

Quote

Looking at her career so far, I think Scarlett Johansson is well-cast. She has the cyberpunk feel. And we never imagined it would be a Japanese actress in the first place.  This is a chance for a Japanese property to be seen around the world.

 

...tho I guess it would be crazy for them not to appear supportive of the whole thing in the first place, so dunno how 'authentic' this statement is, heh.

[Zeus 7997]

I wouldn't expect the publisher of the manga to not be supportive. If they put out negative press it could affect their sales. I'm not changing my mind until Masamune Shirow himself says that he's okay with it. And even then the mangaka is not infallible, so I still want a trailer before I make my mind up. What killed the Attack on Titan live-action movie after all was the large amounts of deviation from the source material, all requested by the original author.

[Original Saku 1593]

it's Kodansha.... who gives a fuck what the publisher thinks, of course their gonna support it, they are ultimately gonna make money some way from the movie so they aren't not gonna support it XD

[Panda_bear 43]

I am actually looking forward to this, but much like everyone else, I am hoping it isn’t a disaster. That fact that guy who directed snow-white is attached to this has me very worried. More than anything I hope they have really good writers. The whole ethos of the series is deep and thought provoking material, which I hope is retained and not dumbed down. I actually like scarlett Jo, I don’t think she’s as bad as some people claim she is.

 

The thing that has bugged me is this whole whitewashing drama.  I think I might be in the minority here and I don't think my opinion will be very popular but this is my 2 cents on the whole issue.  For the record, any criticism I may have is aimed at the general  populace and not to any individual here.

 

Claims of white washing for this movie is nothing but political correctness rearing its uglyhead again with crybabies and misinformed individuals hopping onto the white guilt bandwagon. The real facepalm is that anybody who is familiar with this series knows that The Major physical appearance was never identified as Japanese. She’s a female cyborg that resides in a artificial body with no real hints of her being physically Japanese. What this means is that it’s plausible she could have the physical features of any race and thus renders the entire argument of her having to be physically Japanese  wrong.    

 

You could also argue that her name would identify her as a Japanese., but there are 2 problems with this. The first is that, even if she was originally Japanese, her outward appearance after she gained her cyborg body changed her physical appearance to be racially ambiguous. The second is that the origin of the Major herself is a mystery. We don’t know if the major was even Japanese to begin with, we don’t know even if Motoko Kusanagi was her real name, which when you start to think about it, would be highly unlikely considering she entered into a special Ops cyborg program. And even before she entered the program, she had already changed bodies multiple times. When you take all this into consideration, you can see why claiming casting Scarlett Johansson as the major is whitewashing is pretty ridiculous when the major’s physical appearance, and her very origins are a mystery. 

 

To a certain degree you could make the same argument for some of the other characters in the ghost in the shell universe who are full cyborg and whose physical appearance are never established as being Japanese. (And yes I know some actually are.) Furthermore, the universe of the ghost in the shell is hinted as a  mixture of different races and cultures despite most of the setting taken place in Japan. Keep in mind this is also a universe where you can switch into another physical body. From old to young, to female to male, from white to black, to even human to tank.  

 

Now you could throw everything I just mentioned away, but it would still make sense to cast actors who are well known, despite not being the same race as the source material because at the end of the day it’s all about business. This doesn’t mean that Hollywood, or the movie industry thinks white actors are better, or that (insert any other minority here) are inferior. It simply means that a decision to cast an actor for a film that cost millions of dollars was based on the actors fame, selling power, track record, and actual performing skill, not their race.        

   

This is sort of like when there was that ridiculous whining over the 2016 Oscars being racists against black people because there were no black actors nominated for Oscars. I mean it couldn’t be that during that particular year, there were no black actors whose performance merited a nomination? No, it had to be because of racism, and whatever victim game people like to play. I bring up the Oscars because it’s the same thing with this whole white washing thing. It isn’t because the system is rigged against Asians, or any other race, it’s simply because when it comes to this ghost in the shell film, there is a lack of Japanese/Japanese American actors who have the merits that can carry a triple million digit dollar movie by themselves. The same applies to any foreign Asian actor in the western market. Capitalism doesn’t discriminate. 

 

It would also be a complete fallacy to say Asians are oppressed or discriminated against in the U.S, when there are many Asian/Asian American actors of varying degrees of success.  Asian Americans in the U.S in general earn much higher income than whites, go on to higher education, hold more degrees compared to whites, and are less likely to have crimes committed against them compared to whites. They also report a higher level of financial satisfaction and a higher satisfaction for their standard of living compared to the general population. This should make it quite clear there is not a inherit systemic racial discrimination against Asians/Asian Americans in the U.S or in Hollywood. There is a path open to them, it is simply that not many have taken that path when it comes to Hollywood. Certainly not to the level of any A list actor.

 

Simply put, the accusation of under representation for Asians in the media and Hollywood is nothing but race baiting. A lack of diversity of a certain group in a certain field does not automatically equate to discrimination. You have to look at the context and as well as other factors before considering something like discrimination. When you take into account that there are more Asian Americans in fields like technology and the medical field compared to any other race, couldn’t it be that more Asians Americans simply decide to go in fields such as those, while much less pursue careers like those in the film industry and the media? Then when you take into account that Asian Americans make up 4.8 % of the population compared to whites who stand at 72.4 %, doesn’t it make sense that the ratio of whites to Asians in Hollywood, simply reflects back the real life proportion of whites and Asians in the actual U.S population? There is a similar correlation between whites and other minorities. 

 

In Hollywood, much like in any field, you have to work hard to get somewhere. And nobody is going to pick an obscure, inexperienced, and unproven actor to lead a big budget multi-million blockbuster movie over someone who has worked their way up the ladder. And indeed there are many cases of obscure  non white and white actors who all started off at the very bottom and worked their way up to success and fame.  This has nothing to do with race, but everyone likes to make it a race issue. This leads to a couple of problems.

 

 The first is that it starts to push a false narrative of a non existent discrimination against, in this case, Asians/Asian Americans. This than brews resentment and animosity and in turn segregates people against one another. It also convinces and conditions people to believe in the false narrative and so the falsely oppressed take on a victim mentality, blaming society and others around them rather than you know, actually working hard for what they what, taking responsibility for their actions, and being the change they want to be.  So while they think their actions may be progressing things forward, in reality those actions are nothing more than retrogressive, doing more harm than good. And in many cases they create their own self fulfilling prophecy. 

 

This whole thing about ”white washing” is nothing but a fabricated falsehood once you realize that white washing secretly means the large favoring of white actors over minorities based on race or skin color and nothing else, which is absolutely ridiculous and untrue. Go back a couple of years before white washing entered  the mainstream lexicon and where was the widespread outrage over the American adaptions of Quarantine(2008)?, Pulse (2006)? The Grudge(2004)?, The Ring (2002)?, Why did no one bitch about those movies replacing it’s cast with white actors or for not having Hispanics in something like Quarantine?  What about something like the 1998 American adaptation of Godzilla, whose 1954 version is set in Japan and whose actors were all Japanese yet it’s remake was mostly white actors and not set in Japan?

 

The answer is simple. It’s because no one gave a shit. It’s because people actually used their brains before political correctness began to poison peoples mind. The examples I gave are just some in a very long list of movies that have been adapted by the U.S and whose cast was either largely replaced or entirely replaced with white actors or actors of a different race from the original films.  You’ll also see other countries adapting various media into film and casting actors who are of a different race than the ones in the source material, and guess what? No one gives a shit either because they’re not overly sensitive weaklings. Assuming one has to use actors of the same race from the original source material because using actors of a different race otherwise would negatively affect the outcome is actually racist. 

The whole political correctness has invaded the Asian American community much like every other community.  It’s gotten to the point where you can ruin peoples professional and personal lives for making innocuous jokes or statements because somebody was “offended’.  I have a diverse group of friends who can take all types of jokes (racial included) and dish one out some too and not get “offended”, yet I see a ton of younger Asian Americans and other minorities who love to play the victim and find something offense, and censor others by claiming bigotry and racism. I’m not just talking about jokes here, but everything from ideas to actual facts. 

 

I mean it’s so bad and so stupid there’s a backlash against casting a white woman for a fictional female character, in a fictional world, for not being the original fictional race, despite her fictional race never even being confirmed. 

 

I find this whole white washing thing to be retarded, but using this upcoming ghost in the shell movie as another excuse to play the race card was beyond stupid because the main character was never identified as having a set race to begin with

 

To end, I will say of course I would love to see more Asian actors in big  western movies, or minorities in general, but just like everyone else, they should earn that role. And yes I believe forms of racism, bias and discrimination still exist in the U.S, but whatever kind may still exist in the media or in Hollywood has been greatly exaggerated. I also think Hollywood in general makes some really stupid writing and casting decisions, but that doesn't make them racist. 

 

TLDR points

 

- I like Scarlett Johansson and don’t think she’s terrible
- It’s stupid to say The Major’s character was white washed when her race and origins are a mystery.   
- Hollywood doesn’t really care about care about race, only if they can bring in the big bucks
- The reason there are not a lot of Asian/Asian American represented in western Hollywood is because there aren’t many Asian actors who have reached that high level based on a consistent track record, acting ability, audience drawing power, and fame.
- Asian/Asian American are not systemically discriminated against in the U.S or in Hollywood. 
- Asians are not under represented in western film or media. There are just less of them in film and media compared to whites. It’s math.
- There are many examples of movies that span decades earlier,  being adopted and whose cast was entirely or largely replaced with a different race than that of the original, but nobody got butthurt about them  because the general populace was more mentally mature back than.
- White Washing is not a real thing. It is a false narrative derived from political correctness whose proliferation causes segregation, racism, hinders true progression and promotes a lack of personal accountability.
- Facts and logic > Emotions and misinformation     

 

End rant

[Jigsaw9 6783]

So the first full trailer is out.

 

 

Not gonna lie, I heavily dig it. Even though the dialogue is borderline cringy typical blockbuster fare.

[eiheartx 1310]

I'm excited too, I love ScarJo (she's stunning with this haircut, it totally suits her).

tbf, I don't really know much about GITS story, but from what I've seen in the trailer (from my n00b perspective); it looks good and I want to see more (the trailer's ending makes me curious as well).

[CAT5 9075]

Well, I'm interested at least.

 

40 minutes ago, Jigsaw9 said:

Even though the dialogue is borderline cringy typical blockbuster fare.

 

yeahhhh, that's a bit annoying. One of the biggest draws to GITS for me is its dialogue, so hopefully the script turns out well.

[Bear 1817]

I think it looks godawful, and nothing in that trailer makes me think of Ghost in the Shell.

[Flame-X 441]

Color me interested. One thing I didn't like what they showed in the trailer is her hair. I'm not sure if I want to spend money to watch it in imax but if it's critically received well enough in the reviews, then sure.

I know a lot of purists (or should I say perverts) out there are gonna bitch about her not being actually naked.

[nekkichi 6042]

beautiful cgi, love the city scenes (except for the idiotic giant head prop)

 

 

 

fuck their neckbeard pandering (lesbion kiss with tha exotique chick!! I wish they were my mates!! I'll get my doritos stat)

fuck 90 % white cast (either shoot it in north america or don't bring that much mayo at all)

fuck the "azn gangsta mob breaking into tha scene" trope

fuck this shit if this is what they are showing in the first trailer proper

fuck the pretense with the 8 seconds teasers (this ain't utafumi marketing, piss off)

 

 

will wait for first reviews, so far not here for the shit script writing either

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

On 4/14/2016 at 7:02 PM, Zeus said:

 Our very own @Arithmetica would make a better Motoko Kusanagi than ScarJo and she doesn't even have to change her hairstyle.

 

She's actually partially Japanese, so she'd at least be authentic ;P

[Original Saku 1593]

I'm just still in disbelief that this shitty movie is even happening.... I wish they would just call it something else, because let's be honest, I doubt it will have anything to do with actual GiTS story lines or plot. It's a movie that is being purely made as a cash grab and they're using the  well known name of GiTS and ScarJo to fuel it. I hate this Hollywood mentality. I would rather watch a low budget adaption with people working on it that actually care about the series than a high budget one with IDGAF money whores at the helm and a talentless actress (my opinion) who only got the role because she is what "sells" in the industry. >.>

[Tanishi 598]

Hollywood needs somewhere to go after super hero movies and anime seems like the next logical move. Fortunately anime has fewer titles that would be both suitable and marketable for American audiences, so if in the unlikely chance this movie and the Death Note Live action (and SAO) etc take off the "anime adaptation" phase should only a few years compared to the 10+ years of super hero movies we are getting

 

My expectations for this movie are extremely low and imo I hope it fails to discourage other American anime adaptations.

[mannequin 1]

My first thought was LOL. Bu after watching of an official trailer I'm very curious of this movie. But what I can say for sure, it looks beautiful.

[Zeus 7997]

Instead of quoting your entire post I'll just tag you directly @Uglymouth.

I've been thinking about what you wrote  in relation to whitewashing in Hollywood and I had a thought. It's more of a different perspective than outright dismissing the claims you bring up and I want your thoughts on it.

 

Race and ethnicity has been a thorn in the side of the marketing campaign for this movie, because many fans (rightfully) believe the role of the main character should have gone to someone Japanese, or at least Asian. The rebuttal is that we live in a cybernetic world where humanity has transcended race, but I don't accept that. I don't accept that for multiple reasons.

 

• In the beginning of Season 1, when the Laughing Man hacked all the news stations, cyber brains, and global broadcasts simultaneously to hide his face all the civilians who were standing out in the open couldn't see his face either. The only people that could see his face were the homeless people in the alley he darted past during his escape. That means there's still a reality of "have versus have not" in this universe. This ties into my next point nicely.
   
• The official story is that when she was six, Motoko Kusanagi got into a plane crash that almost killed her. The government offered to give her a full prosthetic replacement, with the strings attached that she had to work for the government when she came of age. The only bits of human left in her are her brain stem and a bit of her spine.
   
• Her body is not truly hers until Arise, where she successfully negotiates freedom of her own body from the government shortly before she transfers to Section 9. So no, she did not "choose" her body; it was chosen for her. She maintains a dim view of sexism in all forms and methods; even going so far as to empathize with sex robots. I can't think of a world with sexism but no racism; that fear stems from the same place.
   
• It's mentioned often that her body is a custom, one of a kind job. This would mean that there are also generic models the less affluent people would have to be stuck with.
   
• Once again in 2nd GIG, during the episode "Fake Food", Batou and Togusa have a conversation about what it means to be cyberized. Despite the fact that exercise provides him little benefit, Batou enjoys jogging and weightlifting as a hobby. They don't have to eat food but there's an entire economy around making food for cybernetic individuals.. I believe this is because no matter what these people still desire to retain parts of their humanity.
   
• This era of Japan is still very xenophobic. Check episode 1 of 2nd GIG, shortly before the gang reforms to storm the building. They have a (fast) conversation which sets up the whole back drop for Kuze (which this movie is supposed to be based off of) and the struggle between Japanese citizens who feel the pressure of the economy & the Asian refugees in Dejima who want independence and put a strain on the economy to keep around. It is heavily implied no one wants to take care of the refugees because they are not Japanese and that's money and resources Japan doesn't have after the great war.
   
• As a more general point. Everyone served in the JSDF. Foreigners cannot join the JSDF.

 

All of this taken together leads me to ask one question: if we truly live in a cyberized world, then why hasn't anyone moved beyond race within their own universe?  Why do they still celebrate their own culture instead of embracing cultural diffusion?  This is a point I don't see explored enough even among fans of the series. One of the biggest points stressed by the series is the line separating man from machine. It's a modern day Ship of Theseus allegory using humanity as the focus. The Major's body could be racially ambiguous but she has a completely Japanese name, follows Japanese customs, works for Japanese secret service, fought for Japan in the great war, etc. If she wanted to blend in in Japan, she wouldn't be white. She wouldn't even be half-white. She would be as Japanese as you can get because that's just how the country and culture is. There's no pretext to believe the entirety of the Japan would suffer under racial dysphoria, and there's every reason to believe she's Japanese. It's just the simpler, most logical & coherent explanation. Hell, the existence of the episode "Fake Food" lends much more strength to this theory; even when cyberized people can't forget what it felt like to eat, sleep, be human. It makes sense that they're suddenly not divorced from feelings of race & self-identifying as Japanese.

The creators just came out and said it was okay because they'll never get another shot at a Hollywood live adaptation so they'll take what they can get.

A more interesting question is what do we think Motoko's answer would be if we asked her her nationality? She is not certain her ghost, or her soul, retains any humanity. In fact, she speculates on the possibility that she's entirely synthetic, with artificially generated memories designed to fool her into thinking she was once human.

tl;dr -

 

There's no way anyone is convincing me that Japan is less xenophobic after a war which destabilized the American Empire and prevented Japan from becoming a global superpower in its own right.

There's also no way that I'm going to be convinced that Japan is a post-racial society while the entirety of Kuze's plan revolves around gaining refugees equal status in Dejima!

I just cannot be sold on racial diversity this time, regardless of whether ScarJo kills the performance. I will always hold it against her that she's not Japanese. It ruins the immersion for me; why fly all the way to Hong Kong and make sure you get the setting right when no one could be assed to get the main character right?

 

ty for reading