Something I've finally realised about modern VK...

[Velocantide 5]

I was just listening through some VK top lists of 2015.

This may not be very representative, but... UGH. Sorry, just in case I'm going to offend anybody here.

I am not surprised that, despite their skills and dedication, half of that stuff sounds so fucking similar. Maybe because they're in the same key, using similar chord progressions. But I think to myself: Damn, VK has gotten stale as hell. The chorus is mostly just a nod to their other material. I don't even know how or why they produce B-sides on top of that. MEJIBRAY had two funny examples, just showing the chorus, and ugh. Same key, similar chord progression.
This just shows me why I've gotten sick of VK. There might be a few exceptions, but they're what they are: Exceptions. Listening to 30 samples of different songs basically tells me: Hey, here we are. Lyrically, we use the same tropes over and over, just worded differently. The prettier you are, the better. There's like two notes that are different in our main melody than in our previous single. Wow.
The rest of the song may sound different, but it all sounds so damn similar.
It's not that it sounds bad, it's just getting indistinguishable. I used to be able to tell these bands apart, but now I simply can't. It's just like a big pile of mashed potatoes without taste, nor salt. That's BORING.

Seriously, no wonder I've gotten away from it. Same formula everywhere. It's as if every single band is aiming to make their song usable for an anime intro or outro. IT ALL STARTS TO SOUND THE FUCKING SAME.

I know it's close to impossible to innovate in a certain genre, but these bands aren't even trying. They're just using the same means to an end over and over and over and over. And people are still wondering why VK has lost so much popularity overseas? Well, you know, cool/pretty looks/makeup aren't everything. The music has to be recognisable. And whatever I heard just now is just something utterly and completely replaceable.

They all need to step out of their comfort zone ASAP, or else they'll be deadweight over here in Europe. I keep hearing of new bands all the time, and out of 100, maybe 2 to 5 are interesting. That makes for a really awful statistic, peeps. It's horrible, and I'm starting to get ashamed about the fact that I used to like this.

I suspect the main reason is the horrid music industry in Japan. But somebody has to counter it. I'm sure that some bands try, but they just fail to get recognition due to their innovation. But this scene needs just that in order to survive. Otherwise, it's pretty much dead - and only clings to hardcore fans buying their Type A, B, C, D, E, special edition singles for ridiculous prices.

 

It just doesn't give me anything anymore. Does anybody feel the same? Can somebody name me artists that are exceptions to this rule? Please elaborate.

Thank you kindly.

 

TL;DR: Excusing myself upfront. Stating that VK is stale as fuck nowadays. Or maybe I didn't notice before, and now I do. Captain Obvious. Moved on. Asking for your thoughts.

[Lestat 2167]

There are a few other threads similar to this one out there, aren't there now? But I suppose there's always room for more of people's thoughts on the subject matter, seeing as it's becoming quite the rowdy discussion out here.

 

I feel the same as you, together with a few others who aren't into Visual Kei's current directional movement. This is fine for me, I stick to what I know and promised to myself that I won't go out of my way anymore to find new bands who might bear a slightly different tone than others because I know for myself that I won't really find them anymore, unless rooted musicians pop up with a new project. 

 

But to address a few personal favourites who are currently still active (or close to disbanding) who I believe are worth noticing — most of these bands consist of musicians who have been around since the late 90's or early 00's: 

• MASKED RIDER SYSTEM
• KAMIJO
• KEEL
• Femme Fatale
• K.A.F.K.A
• Scarlet Valse
• ザアザア
• マルコ
• メディーナ
• Synk;yet-シンクイェット-
• ライチ☆光クラブ
• Veritas en void
• Lament.
• 凛 -the end of corruption world-
• 己龍
• -真天地開闢集団-ジグザグ
• Lucifer's Underground
• MORE
• THE MORTAL
• R指定

Obviously there are the obvious names like BUCK-TICK and PENICILLIN, but I don't think it's useful mentioning those here.

[Zeus 7997]

I was just listening through some VK top lists of 2015.

There's your first problem. VK is < 5% of the music industry in Japan and that's probably my healthy gaijin keyboard estimate. If I listened almost exclusively to NWOBHM for damn near a decade I'd get sick of all of the similarities too.

I was actually talking about this with @fictioninhope a few days ago, mostly about how overseas fans tend to get behind and hype a small fraction of the scene. Even within visual kei there are artists that are hyped and artists that are ignored. You can dig deep into visual kei and find a handful of artists that aren't doing anything remotely mainstream or derivative.

 

This just shows me why I've gotten sick of VK. There might be a few exceptions, but they're what they are: Exceptions. Listening to 30 samples of different songs basically tells me: Hey, here we are. Lyrically, we use the same tropes over and over, just worded differently. The prettier you are, the better. There's like two notes that are different in our main melody than in our previous single. Wow.

At this point I need to ask "What bands do you follow".

 

The rest of the song may sound different, but it all sounds so damn similar.

It's not that it sounds bad, it's just getting indistinguishable. I used to be able to tell these bands apart, but now I simply can't. It's just like a big pile of mashed potatoes without taste, nor salt. That's BORING.

Seriously, no wonder I've gotten away from it. Same formula everywhere. It's as if every single band is aiming to make their song usable for an anime intro or outro. IT ALL STARTS TO SOUND THE FUCKING SAME.

I know it's close to impossible to innovate in a certain genre, but these bands aren't even trying. They're just using the same means to an end over and over and over and over. And people are still wondering why VK has lost so much popularity overseas? Well, you know, cool/pretty looks/makeup aren't everything. The music has to be recognisable. And whatever I heard just now is just something utterly and completely replaceable.

They all need to step out of their comfort zone ASAP, or else they'll be deadweight over here in Europe. I keep hearing of new bands all the time, and out of 100, maybe 2 to 5 are interesting. That makes for a really awful statistic, peeps. It's horrible, and I'm starting to get ashamed about the fact that I used to like this.

I suspect the main reason is the horrid music industry in Japan. But somebody has to counter it. I'm sure that some bands try, but they just fail to get recognition due to their innovation. But this scene needs just that in order to survive. Otherwise, it's pretty much dead - and only clings to hardcore fans buying their Type A, B, C, D, E, special edition singles for ridiculous prices.

 

It just doesn't give me anything anymore. Does anybody feel the same? Can somebody name me artists that are exceptions to this rule? Please elaborate.

Thank you kindly.

 

TL;DR: Excusing myself upfront. Stating that VK is stale as fuck nowadays. Or maybe I didn't notice before, and now I do. Captain Obvious. Moved on. Asking for your thoughts.

Instead of my snarkiness I'll shamelessly copy Lestat's post and add a few bands below that completely refute your entire point:

 

• MASKED RIDER SYSTEM
• KAMIJO
• KEEL
• Femme Fatale
• K.A.F.K.A
• Scarlet Valse
• ザアザア
• マルコ
• メディーナ
• Synk;yet-シンクイェット-
• ライチ☆光クラブ
• Veritas en void
• Lament.
• 凛 -the end of corruption world-
• 己龍
• -真天地開闢集団-ジグザグ
• Lucifer's Underground
• MORE
• THE MORTAL
• R指定
• BUCK-TICK
• PENICILLIN
• X JAPAN
• D'ERLANGER
• LUNA SEA

I can add more but I'll stop there. Before you go on a tirade about how boring visual kei is to you why don't you try something new first?

[beni 2149]

I was just listening through some VK top lists of 2015.

This may not be very representative, but... UGH. Sorry, just in case I'm going to offend anybody here.

I am not surprised that, despite their skills and dedication, half of that stuff sounds so fucking similar. Maybe because they're in the same key, using similar chord progressions. But I think to myself: Damn, VK has gotten stale as hell. The chorus is mostly just a nod to their other material. I don't even know how or why they produce B-sides on top of that. MEJIBRAY had two funny examples, just showing the chorus, and ugh. Same key, similar chord progression.

This just shows me why I've gotten sick of VK. There might be a few exceptions, but they're what they are: Exceptions. Listening to 30 samples of different songs basically tells me: Hey, here we are. Lyrically, we use the same tropes over and over, just worded differently. The prettier you are, the better. There's like two notes that are different in our main melody than in our previous single. Wow.

The rest of the song may sound different, but it all sounds so damn similar.

It's not that it sounds bad, it's just getting indistinguishable. I used to be able to tell these bands apart, but now I simply can't. It's just like a big pile of mashed potatoes without taste, nor salt. That's BORING.

Seriously, no wonder I've gotten away from it. Same formula everywhere. It's as if every single band is aiming to make their song usable for an anime intro or outro. IT ALL STARTS TO SOUND THE FUCKING SAME.

I know it's close to impossible to innovate in a certain genre, but these bands aren't even trying. They're just using the same means to an end over and over and over and over. And people are still wondering why VK has lost so much popularity overseas? Well, you know, cool/pretty looks/makeup aren't everything. The music has to be recognisable. And whatever I heard just now is just something utterly and completely replaceable.

They all need to step out of their comfort zone ASAP, or else they'll be deadweight over here in Europe. I keep hearing of new bands all the time, and out of 100, maybe 2 to 5 are interesting. That makes for a really awful statistic, peeps. It's horrible, and I'm starting to get ashamed about the fact that I used to like this.

I suspect the main reason is the horrid music industry in Japan. But somebody has to counter it. I'm sure that some bands try, but they just fail to get recognition due to their innovation. But this scene needs just that in order to survive. Otherwise, it's pretty much dead - and only clings to hardcore fans buying their Type A, B, C, D, E, special edition singles for ridiculous prices.

 

It just doesn't give me anything anymore. Does anybody feel the same? Can somebody name me artists that are exceptions to this rule? Please elaborate.

Thank you kindly.

 

TL;DR: Excusing myself upfront. Stating that VK is stale as fuck nowadays. Or maybe I didn't notice before, and now I do. Captain Obvious. Moved on. Asking for your thoughts.

 

No.

[YuyoDrift 1540]

What the above people said.

 

Honest answer will be that only YOU can determine what appeals to you.

Perhaps later the bands you thought were stale might actually become your faves as you grow wiser (I'm not saying you're immature).

 

edit: Or am I?

[Chi 2624]

even if you leave out the shitty bands that dont know what the fuck they are doing with their instruments there are plenty of bands that have their own sound and are very distinguishable. both big names in vk scene and new bands, as listed above. my opinion tho.

although it is true that some bands go thru the "every song we make sounds the same" phase lol

[Velocantide 5]

Thanks for your suggestions, people. I know you're being defensive, and I am aware that watching a top-something-list is the worst thing to get back into the genre. I was just trying to vent a little.

 

I already know some of the bands mentioned.

LUNA SEA: I enjoy them very much. One of my faves has to be "Face to Face", it's so calming.

X JAPAN: This is a no-brainer. I like them, but tbh, I prefer LUNA SEA, simply because I don't like Toshi's timbre that much. He is an amazing singer, but I can't listen to them that much.

D'ERLANGER: Yeah, I know they're good, and they've come back a while ago. They're still good. Moop.

KAMIJO: I've liked him in Lareine, but only in a few songs. He was also likable in Versailles. I only heard his first solo single, so I'll try to start there. Thanks.

凛 -the end of corruption world-: With the new lineup, I will still always think about how much Megaromania and - now - Lin - is going to be inferior to Metis Gretel. I liked Metamorphose. but that sounded like a gothic version of an old Muse song. I love Muse, but... Eh.

己龍 - I like Kiryu! They're edgy and don't hold back. I still love how they did a Tetris refence in "Another Side", back when they were starting out. They're consistently good.

BUCK-TICK - D'uh. Yeah, of course they're good. But still, they had decades of experience.
PENICILLIN: Same with BUCK-TICK. I already know them. But they're still no newsies.
R指定: I really like them. Still. I've also known their previous bands, such as R-15 (which is still the same thing) and I believe... Catherine? I dunno anymore. But yeah, they've always been cool.

I didn't listen to the other ones mentioned yet so far, so thanks for the suggestions!
Still, what I was mainly talking about were new bands that are getting popular for nothing. Something like RoNo☆Cro. Heard their first song and though: Ew. Ew. Why.
A lot of the bands mentioned have been in business for a while (and a good reason), but why does the new band's stuff put me off so much?

I'm not trying to insult anyone, by the way. And I appreciate all your input. Please remember that this topic didn't spawn out of malicious intents, nor do I want to ridicule anybody for their taste, as each and everyone has different preferences.

 

Yet, I still stand by saying that most newer stuff is getting more indistiguishable by the minute. You can prove me wrong, but using classics such as BUCK-TICK or X-JAPAN (or anything older than 5 years, with a reputation you could possibly write home about) is not gonna help much. These people are routined. Name me something new, that's actually worthwhile. Thanks!

[Zeus 7997]

I didn't listen to the other ones mentioned yet so far, so thanks for the suggestions!

Still, what I was mainly talking about were new bands that are getting popular for nothing. Something like RoNo☆Cro. Heard their first song and though: Ew. Ew. Why.

A lot of the bands mentioned have been in business for a while (and a good reason), but why does the new band's stuff put me off so much?

Sounds like indie visual kei is not for you.

 

Yet, I still stand by saying that most newer stuff is getting more indistiguishable by the minute. You can prove me wrong, but using classics such as BUCK-TICK or X-JAPAN (or anything older than 5 years, with a reputation you could possibly write home about) is not gonna help much. These people are routined. Name me something new, that's actually worthwhile. Thanks!

[YuyoDrift 1540]

I'm trying to figure out how to tell you that:

 

• You're burning yourself out by trying to catch up for lost time (I'm assuming you took a break?)
• You're rushing to conclusions (If you DID take a break)
• We all agree with you
• Tough it out
• You're having a VK mid-life crisis

but I'm lazy today

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

Try Sleep My Dear, they're good for you.

[lichtlune 915]

I think visual kei bands have always sounded similar to eachother. But I do think we're missing some of the super groups of the past. Dadaroma and Mejibray come close to being that I guess. 

[Ito 2438]

Sturgeon's law says that 90% of everything is shit...so yeeeeah lol

[Chi 2624]

The newer bands just arent satisfying your music taste. That is all...

[Pretsy 1343]

 

You're having a VK mid-life crisis

OP sounds a lot like me a year or two ago so yeah, this might be it actually. You don't have to always limit yourself to vk-only pleasures if you find current vk scene to be well, totally shit? I can say this from my personal experience: it doesn't hurt! Just start out with "borderline vk" bands and venture further into more casual ones (some bands coming out of my head):

 

- Jikkendai Marmot (perfect "borderline vk" example - genre pool varies from gypsy jazz to swing music and whatnot)

- Kannivalism ("Helios" might be a good fit if you are really interested in post-rock-ish influences a la vk way)

- DIMMDIVISION / Dim My Division (read above)

- Sibilebashir (Nice throwback to "angstier" (think of Kagerou or even Mucc) days of vk but in much more maniac-like way)

 

But yeah, don't be afraid of looking "outside of the box" as well.

[chemicalpictures 1888]

I've been listening to japanese music since around 2000, and profusely since 2004, and I can tell that every year people say what you are saying. VK represents maybe 3 or 5% of japanese music industry, I guess. It's a niche inside a niche, thousands of bands disbands and forms everyday and no one cares. People go where the money is, so of course 18412980123 newbie bands will imitate what is giving money nowadays. There's always a "phase" going around, if you get what I'm saying. There was a time when EVERY BAND was oshare, then EVERY BAND was linkin park, then EVERY BAND was dir en grey, now EVERY BAND is metalcore. Even the bands you mentioned were kinda influenced one by another.

TL;DR: VK has always been like this. You just don't like the flavor of the month.

[CAT5 9075]

Some perspective: this is from the 90's 

Make of this what you will. 

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

I don't see the problem with sharing one of the most iconic moments in musical history here.

[Pretsy 1343]

Pfffttt "iconic":

 

 

And people say 90s "had no" oshare

[CAT5 9075]

I don't see the problem with sharing one of the most iconic moments in musical history here.

 

 

ahahaha, in seriousness tho, there's nothing "wrong" with it. That was just my way of trying to subtly dismantle the OP's generalizations. 

[JRD 5156]

Just dig deep into the steaming pile of shit and you'll find those diamonds that have been swallowed.

 

Out of all the bands that are still active, I only like 5 give or take. But I still have those 30+ disbanded bands from the mid 00s and handful from the 90s that I love going back to listen to because music.

[Zeus 7997]

Thanks for your suggestions, people. I know you're being defensive, and I am aware that watching a top-something-list is the worst thing to get back into the genre. I was just trying to vent a little.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, by the way. And I appreciate all your input. Please remember that this topic didn't spawn out of malicious intents, nor do I want to ridicule anybody for their taste, as each and everyone has different preferences.

Also you should check out this topic, which coincidentally (right now) is the one right below this topic. This is the most up-to-date topic about how international visual kei fans feel about the current state of the visual kei scene. It's a cousin topic to this one. You'll notice a lot of overlap between how you feel and how a lot of us feel.

I also see that you're new here. One distinguishing feature of Monochrome Heaven is that despite the stereotype that the scene is flooded with raving lunatic weeaboos, our members are just regular weeaboos and a healthy amount of otaku. You'll see crazy fans elsewhere but they're all quiet here. Most long time members aren't even that big on new visual kei, especially the indie acts you were citing as examples.

[chemicalpictures 1888]

Also you should check out this topic, which coincidentally (right now) is the one right below this topic. This is the most up-to-date topic about how international visual kei fans feel about the current state of the visual kei scene. It's a cousin topic to this one. You'll notice a lot of overlap between how you feel and how a lot of us feel.

I also see that you're new here. One distinguishing feature of Monochrome Heaven is that despite the stereotype that the scene is flooded with raving lunatic weeaboos, our members are just regular weeaboos and a healthy amount of otaku. You'll see crazy fans elsewhere but they're all quiet here. Most long time members aren't even that big on new visual kei, especially the indie acts you were citing as examples.

 

That's something I really really like about this community. It's like a sunday barbecue, moms and dads chilling, making conversation and having a beer while listening to weird music, with just a few kids running around making noise and jumping on the pool, lol

[emmny 4139]

i dont blame op and i dont get the roastfest like pretz said this was me around a year ago and i think everyone has this phase when they realize that nothing in the current scene sounds like their old favs. when i just got really into vk and realized nothing was gonna sound like deadman, sugar, emmuree, rentrer en soi, 9goats, d'espairsray etc i was salty at the scene but upon everyone else's advice here i opened my ears to other bands and they're some of my favs. at first i made fun of TBS for sounding like mejibray (i dont know what i was thinking either, dont ask) and i hated AvelCain for just being an overall shit show glamourizing depression (imo its not too far from the truth but they're just awesome tho shh) and now they're some of my favs.

this is basically what i posted in the thread zeus mentioned lol

dont give up on VK!! never!!!

[lollipopmonstar 346]

This topic can't be serious lol

[saishuu 3220]

I think most of what I'm about to say has already been said, but just to get my two cents out: I went through this phase of "hating" VK and thinking all bands that were popping out in the scene sounded alike and weren't really good. I'm not gonna dismiss that sentiment because I've seen it happen with plenty of people, although it's still hard to understand the exact reason as to why it happens. It was weird for me to understand it too, especially since I was a fan of the scene for a long time. But after a while, I realized that I needed that "anger" to open up my mind to other stuff and that VK wasn't necessarily the problem. Yes, the current trend of growling and metalcore isn't my favorite as well, but so wasn't oshare. So wasn't nu metal. But every single time I ended up thinking "this isn't for me anymore", I find out there are still bands doing their own thing, trying to be creative, trying to stand out. These bands do exist, and to be fairly honest, you just need to look at the bigger picture. VK, as a scene, has always had diversity at the same time it has lots of younger bands trying to follow the current trend just to stand out among others and get their space. What I mean by all this is: even though the majority of it doesn't seem appealing anymore, just give some time to see that there's still a few bright spots here and there that you'll probably enjoy. At some point you do grow out of following every single aspect of the scene, but that doesn't mean that it's not worthy giving it some attention every once in a while.