Visual kei is dead! (at least on youtube)

[hiroki 5521]

So... http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%22jrock%22

 

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=visual%20kei

 

Youtube statistics: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=visual%20kei&gprop=youtube&cmpt=q

 

 

I doubt many people who've been interested in vk for >10 years will even google stuff like "jrock" and "visual kei". At least not very regularly at all. We already know what bands we like (and which we don't care much for), and we have our dedicated sources for feeds/updates - be it Twitter, MH, OHPs, blogs, youtube channels, etc. What your stats show is only that today we have fewer curious onlookers, and vk is getting less "outside" attention from these people who don't exactly know what vk is all about and are interested to find out. That doesn't necessarily have any connection with the already established fanbase of vk (what Ikna has called people who are into "normalized" vk). It's true that having less "new vk fans" coming into the scene may be a sign of decline, but demographically speaking these are two separate and distinct groups of people. The reason I don't think vk is "dying" is because the spike vk experienced previously wasn't actually true "growth" in the first place; it was merely the 2-second attention of a bunch of people who would quickly pass from one hit to another.

 

Finally: it's entirely possible that overall vk interest has shrunk (though I'm still doubtful), but this just raises the question of which criterion are we using to appraise interest. Total CD Sales? Live ticket sales? A lot of these indices don't work very well for foreign fans for obvious reasons. Online presence is also something that's difficult to monitor. Or do we rely on something that sounds nice but totally un-helpful like the number of vk fans? Then we'll get into the territory of what constitutes a "fan", which from past experience isn't exactly a territory where I'll want to tread..

[lichtlune 915]

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=The%20gazette%2C%20x%20japan%2C%20mejibray%2C%20Versailles%2C%20dir%20en%20grey&gprop=youtube&cmpt=q 

 

 

Here's something else. I put together some of the most known jrock/visual kei bands i know and even put Mejibray in there for measure. 

 

 

Edit: never mind i put in the information again and it gave me different results disregard this. (there needs to be a way to just delete a post)

[Nisimaldar 153]

Considering that I've been out of the scene for 5 years (I've still listened to vk but only the old stuff that I've already possessed), here's my two cents:

It's damn time consuming and while I had the time as a 14-17 y/o, I don't have it anymore. It's not like I can pop in a local store and check out all the cool new releases, I have to seriously search for it. And I'm not a person that randomly downloads stuff because I'm not constantly sorting out my files. So if I see someone upload something from a band that I don't know (I don't know most of them) I first have to google them, check out their older stuff and then decide. By this time I've found some bands that I really like, so I also want their earlier releases, but most of the time the older files are already deleted. Now I go look for their old stuff somewhere else but I probably won't find it, then I have a fucking single with two or three songs and at this point I'm like, fuck it. 

My PC hates Itunes (and other Apple software, I'm fine with "download-purchasing" stuff from steam and amazon) , ordering albums takes months (I've received the new Mucc album two weeks ago even though I've preordered it) and is expensive.

 

So I think it kinda all ties together. If there are no videos of the bands on Youtube less people will get to know them; when files get constantly deleted, some people tend to 'give up' on the band. And last but not least, the fanbase a couple of years back was fairly young and imo, generally speaking, of course we're an exception to that, people tend to give up their 'obsession' with their hobbies as they grow up. 

 

So the people who comment on vk stuff on Youtube will also get less, especially now that Youtube often times blocks certain videos in certain countries (hi therr Germans) even if the videos were uploaded by the record company.

 

(and didn't a lot of people hop on the kpop bandwagon and never look back? .-. at least that's what happened here a lot, my usual clique got divided in one 'goth', one 'death metal' and two 'Kpop's :] )

[violetchain 912]

It might be different in some parts of the world, but the general trend of the visual kei and j-rock search stats looks about right for where I live. It definitely matches what's been happening at my local convention. I started going around 2006, and there used to be a bunch of J-rock/VK panels, but within the last few years it dropped to two (usually Dir en Grey and the Gazette), and then none at all. There were at least 10 K-pop panels this year. Interest from the anime crowd definitely doesn't seem to be anywhere near what it used to, and I'm sure that's where many of the more casual fans in the mid-00's came from.

[Heroin 53]

Hey Matsuchan, nice to know that you were the one making those top brutal visual kei band videos. I really enjoyed at the time when I first tried to find the craziest VK bands. Which your vids really nailed it! So thanks for that. 

 

At the time during my VK days, it did feel that there was a scene on youtube for the vk heads. Made friends, discussed and even try to change back Girugamesh by sending letters on how we felt about the band. It was pretty cool those days.

 

For these days I really don't know nothing about any scene on youtube. I lost complete touch of the internet at most and visual kei. All I have to say its probably because the limitations of what you can do on youtube and how their new format is. It's just not the same basically.

[Lestat 2167]

If Visual Kei artists are getting greedier than they already are, then why not upload full videos on YouTube? It doesn't cost them any extra effort, and (if we look at things statistically, and not based on popularity) perhaps might even serve them a little extra as YouTube pays per a considerable amount of viewers when you become their partner (as in dumping ads on your channel). Their marketing strategies are just so strange; releasing at least three different types of a record, live-distributed releases, releases limited to distinguished webshops or stores, the 'buy merchandise for at least ¥5.000 and you get an extra' strategy. Why not simply sell all these limited releases separately? Or opening the borders and set up sales to overseas customers who are often more than willing to pay whatever the price? There just needs to be one band who opens up their eyes to the world and to actually working marketing strategies, and I bet the scene could lift itself up in a matter of perhaps two years.

[Champ213 1858]

 Why not simply sell all these limited releases separately? Or opening the borders and set up sales to overseas customers who are often more than willing to pay whatever the price? There just needs to be one band who opens up their eyes to the world and to actually working marketing strategies, and I bet the scene could lift itself up in a matter of perhaps two years.

 

Eh, this is quite an overstatement. The number of foreigners willing to pay "whatever the price" (or anything at all, really) for vk releases is small. Very small. It's not like there haven't been a couple of bands/label/projects that specifically tried to cater to overseas fans, especially during the high days of the boom. They all weren't doing too hot, to be honest. Anyone remember that Xodiack/HearJapan fiasco? Yeah.

[Vitne Eveille 65]

I agree with those who said perhaps it is because the bands want to encourage fans to buy the special ediition CD + DVD with their PV rather than go to YouTube.  It is probably because Japan, up until just recently, has had high CD sales due to its lack of digital "interest" by the record labels.  CDs have had a high price traditionally, and the price is usually printed on the CD like a book to discourage price changes (ie. DROPS).  

 

Recently though, the labels allowed artists' catalogs to be released internationally on services like iTunes (Gackt was a big deal when he released nearly his entire catalog on iTunes.  Was that last year?).  And now, aside from collectors, why buy the DVD of only a PV when you can watch it on YouTube?  (if the label or artists are thinking, they would set up their YouTube videos to gain royalties through something like VEVO or Rumblefish).

 

I feel Japan is beginning to go through what much of the rest of the world has gone through with the decline of CD sales.  Sure, CDs are cool to have, GACKT's CDs particularly are the most impressive CD packages I have ever seen, but it is a dying medium.  Instead of CDs, why don't artists make other stuff, like T-shirts instead?  T-shirts aren't going to be a dying thing until we can just put a hologram of a shirt over ourselves using some device...and that doesn't seem like anytime soon 

 

I don't know these artists personally, but I wouldn't go saying that VK artists are getting greedier.  What if they came back and said "VK fans are getting stingier/cheaper"?  Each is a radical point of view, but its not addressing the underlying issue - Artists need income in order to survive and create.  It has always been this way, even painters back in the 1600s (just throwing out a date there).  

 

How they act about it is a different matter

 

There are rude artists, and there are grateful artists.  The rude artists push push push and expect people to buy their music which no one has ever heard.   Me, I'm just grateful for anyone to hear my music.  

[Tetora 625]

Going to give my two cents in numerical fashion, hopefully it doesn`t come off as too `as a matter of fact...`.

1: PV, even if not used on Youtube in their full length are still used in a very promotional way. Television, live-streams, Nico, at live events, or to sell cd`s.

2: They are different way artists and labels run things. Personally I prefer the way some labels such as Danger Crue, and Bandsaid do it ( my favorites promotional-wise) where they put tons of artists comments, goofy videos to build connection with the band, the short PV only until they give you the full PV which they almost always do unless a promotional company asks to pay for the rights to use on their channel, or the artists want it on their channel, and so on. DC and Bandsaid make the sure you know all of the labels bands, and see all you can. Then there is PSC, which you may know I dislike management wise. They restrict access to almost all interesting content and the labels they work with make many copyright claims for any other content ( I have a position in favor of labels putting up content, as for others putting up copyrighted content, no comment).
For PSC, take Kra for example... pretty much no way to know what is going on with them besides fan content and news updates, even though they are a major band and one of the most technically talented bands period. You have to follow Kra Chile, a fan channel or other channels to even know what they look like.
Then there is Resistar, another of my favorite labels, and they put up videos of tons of goofy stuff, and previews, they build good awareness but do not post PV`s in full length 99% of the time.

3: So, then we have buying LE cd`s for the PV, and making of. I see many people who do not buy the LE with the PV if it is posted by the label on Youtube, or even regret buying it. Mostly a foreign thing from my experience, as digital is more acceptable outside of Japan as opposed to physical items in culture. I will admit, I never buy LE`s unless I really want to collect. For example, I only have DIV`s new single preordered for the regular edition, because I know DC will have the PV in high quality. Even if there is an issue, like when JUSTICE was put up with bad audio sync, DC listened to fan comments and fixed it... BUT, I buy all DOG in the PWO cd`s because I know Resistar will only post a PV if the stars align, and even fans will only upload it three lunar cycles later, probably in 90p resolution.

4: Yes I agree with VK interest being in trends. IMO it ebbs and flows, so it will keep coming back, same as things change culturally. For example, we went through the Hair Metal movement, then Grunge, then 90`s Alt Rock, then Pop-Punk, then Emo / Screamo etc to name a few, and now we live in an age where the popular styles are either Hipster, EDM brah`s, or the prevalent rap scene, everything else is a niche which is almost always frowned upon. Look at what is popular and viral now in the US, due to a post 9/11 culture. Not the right time for VK, but you will see KPOP and stuff like Gangnam style going viral. Feel-Good stuff is more in, watch some commercials on tv, and hear the cheerful poppy music, etc... The bands that have the biggest chance now are in the Oshare range, but that is too far out there, and people will eventually shift from current trends, and old stuff will be back along with some new.
As for a comment I saw on South America etc... I think it is different, they always had a very strong fanbase for many kinds of rock, and some ties to Japan as well. Some bands will always be popular there, esp. Hyde, and that will spur more interest in all Japanese rock. Random example of Rock`s history there, but a huge cultural phenomenon there decades ago was the song Hotel California, and so many bands would learn it, even if they didnt understand the words, so in a place like Peru, you would hear it everywhere you went. Even today, many fans I see on Youtube of lots of Rock, even VK, are from South America.

5: Cd Sales in Japan again, this kinda relates to the issue, and I see it mentioned above. So far Japan still has the strongest physical music industry in the world. 2012 was very strong due to many major releases and interest. 2013 was estimated to be the year Japan became no.1 worldwide, but there was a dip in major cd releases, and dip in interest in digital side-markets like ring-tones etc... We shall see how 2014 goes. IMO it is better as a physical market, and I think it will suffer from moving to digital, as the culture has not went there, and other markets have not successfully made that shift. If 2014 is good, Japan will def. become no.1 in the world.

6: Toxic fanbases. IMO the negativity has grown largely from just a first impression kind of view of any forum or comment line. I usually dont even read comments on Youtube, as there is always negativity, and always a comment that says `they used to be better, what is this?`. As for forums, they are also very negative. Things were much more positive from what I saw years ago, when talking about anime, manga, etc... was full of wildly enthusiastic kids and older people who felt free to post about their love in many ways. What I saw was a gradual and natural reaction to this, where people didn`t want to be like that, and wanted to distance themselves from those fanbases and `fan-boys` or `fan-girls` and be cooler, edgier people who began even saying negative things just for the sake of being negative and not looking like those `other` fans. Now on many places it is popular to say negative things, put down bands, act like VK sucks, like they are second-rate, etc... And it is not fun to participate in, and not fun to read a thread or comment section for a video you just watched and loved, while people just pop-in to say `this sucks`, or `this is a rip-off of something else`. So I would rather just buy my cds, and either not read comments, or just ignore them and say positive things, but being positive makes you a `fan-boy` and your opinion isn`t relevant now because you are supposedly one...


7: A million-plus views with minimal ad clicks would be about $500 dollars, so, not that much, but profit margin on an LE is usually $5 or less, so about 100 sales they would have to lose, and it is a strong possibility. Abingdon Boys Howling reached 10mill plus before being taken down, so $5000-$10,000 estimated based off revenues I have seen (but they didn`t even post that video, and their Youtube channels are pretty much never used) So if they posted that vid, and had a cd LE with PV, there is hypothetically a count of 1000 cd sales they would have to lose. So we can either take that into account for popular videos, or estimate revenues based off less popular PV`s plus other vids posted like comments or goofy nonsense. But then you have to take into acccount sales of a PV colection DVD, etc... How much would these sales suffer? Very `if and maybe` reasoning here that is not scientific, but it puts some-what of a perspective on things.

8: And lastly, just to throw this in, Youtube is not used as much by Japanese as foreigners, and foreigners have never shown concrete measure of large sales or impact for most bands, so why should labels care? (Just a question, not necessarily my views, I always want VK to grow, etc..)


And I bolded that part in `6` as I know this post is a lot to read, so many will skim, and that is one more partisan feeling of mine that I wanted to express.
Thanks for reading.

[togz 2004]

idk while there's not as many fan uploaded videos recently... i have noticed a lot more bands catching on to making youtubes.... 

[BrenGun 2259]

It still surpissed me that visual kei is so populair in south america also center america and of course mexico(mexico = north america)

But the problem with those latino countries is 99% is to poor to buy cd. So it yet amazed me that many have the money to pay for internet.

Not that it matters its a good thing. also that it is still popular overthere the fanbase is so big. Still after so many years. While in Europe and north america the interest in Japan is dropping down.

But I still think the biggest reason why people stopped to upload to youtube is because you can get copyright claim. 100% from those bigger vkei bands. With a nice label.

Then you simply also stop uploading other shizzel.

[Vitne Eveille 65]

Replying to Tetora, excellent post!  You elaborated on some things I didn't.

 

I think it really comes down to bands and artists must find their way.  My personal opinion, I think bands should do everything.  Put videos on youtube, do limited edition CD+DVD packages (if they have the money), etc.  But if something is wasting their money, like if they print 500 CD packages and only sell 50...maybe that money is best spent elsewhere.  Measure your market.  And just because one thing works in Japan (CDs, for example), it won't necessarily work elsewhere.

 

Also, bands can't expect to be "enigmatic" anymore like they used to be able to be.  Well, I suppose they can, but success based on that is probably quite slim.

[Shmilly 519]

Yep, all the record labels threatening people and YouTube subsequently going on video purging/banning sprees might certainly have been the number one thing that's discouraged people from there for sure. For example, I remember when the Gackt fandom went into a panic because Gordie was literally removing any trace of existance of Gackt on YouTube, including clips of him appearing on Japanese television shows or things unrelated to his current solo project (like Malice Mizer) and fan/tribute videos simply tagged as "Gackt." People responded by continuously making new accounts and re-uploading the videos, but I could see after a while that doing that over and over again can be tiresome and wouldn't be surprised if people simply just gave up after a while. 

 

Haa, I remember years ago I had a channel with literally all of Gackt's PVs at the time and eventually a lot from Miyavi too. I hit figures on views and subscribers that these days would have made YouTube hit me up for a contract - hell, I even met someone at high school who showed me my own channel that they were always watching. xD But of course I got some kind of message from Crown or Gordie or something that my immature self chose to ignore, and soon enough my channel soon disappeared.

 

That's just one example but I certainly agree with people that the stronger stance against copyright, particularly from labels, has had a huge influence on the YouTube visual scene. Back when I had that channel, it was easy to find fans uploading full PVs and concerts that you would be thrilled to watch. I used to download a bunch of PVs to put on my iPod that no longer seem to exist on the internet. Now you'd be running a risk of including a short music clip in your video because of audio checks.

 

I also agree that the whole 'Promotional Video' as a buying incentive is a ridiculous trend. The money bands - especially visual bands - sink into PVs goes completely to waste when it doesn't serve that purpose. Including a PV with your new release should be a nice bonus, not an incentive to buy multiple editions or encourage loyalty to certain retailers. And having spent almost a year now living in Japan, I'm hard pressed to think of a place you could go to watch all the newest 'Promotional Videos' other than the brief clips some bands put out nowadays.

 

That said, in response to the whole visual kei community on YouTube topic, I think it's as much a case of times changing as anything else. The Japanese use this wonderful expression 'しょうがない' which basically means inevitability - it can't be helped. People these days are busy and even if they're watching videos they probably won't even take the time to hit the like button, let alone leave a useful comment or initiate discussion. This compounds the copyright issue too; people who can't be bothered to comment on a video probably don't want the hassle of risking copyright on their channel or even have much time to actually upload something. It's a shame, but it's the way things seem to be going lately.

[Gaz 1097]

aaaand just remember some other shit i wanted to say

Some years later I uploaded some cd collection updates but it seems like no one cares anymore for it. Nearly no one is commenting on anything, nor uploads something etc…

lol do you seriously think that someone would care about other people's collection? besides of arse-kissers who just want to get something from you nobody will give a shit about it. the whole thing about making videos of what you have bought is just a simple bragging, nothing more. if you'd actually cared to give previews of some releases you could do it separately, only for those bands that doesn't have any previews at all. but posting such videos is actually sounds like "hey guys check out how my vk-penis has grown up lately" to me.

[seikun 317]

It still surpissed me that visual kei is so populair in south america also center america and of course mexico(mexico = north america)

But the problem with those latino countries is 99% is to poor to buy cd. So it yet amazed me that many have the money to pay for internet.

Not that it matters its a good thing. also that it is still popular overthere the fanbase is so big. Still after so many years. While in Europe and north america the interest in Japan is dropping down.

But I still think the biggest reason why people stopped to upload to youtube is because you can get copyright claim. 100% from those bigger vkei bands. With a nice label.

Then you simply also stop uploading other shizzel.

 

That sounds kind of racist... They are just american countries.

 

And they are not as poor countries as you think.

[Peace Heavy mk II 7200]

whet

 

 

I don't think referring to Latin American countries by their geographical proximities has anything to do with race.

[relentless 254]

Also, it'll be great if ppl can stop using "vk is dying!" as a sneaky shorthand for "the kind of vk I like is dying!".....

 

 

People have been saying it for over 600 years in regards to Classical, so I think VK will be just fine.

 

 

 

full size if interested: http://blog.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/killing-classical-music-large.jpg

[Nyasagi 259]

The reason of comments dropping: youtube wants you to get google plus for this, so most people are too lazy to bother with that. When I'm logged in with my youtube account, I want to post comments with the youtube account, damn. I'm not going to register or log into some other stuff just to waste even more seconds of my life to post a comment. Most youtube comments are extremely dumb, anyway. I had to turn my e-mail notifications off, because it was just some retarded fangirling and I didn't want to know about new comments on the vids I uploaded anymore, lol.

[VkBrutaliaN 1890]

@Gaz

 

uhm... let me think about what you just said...

 

 

 

lol do you seriously think that someone would care about other people's collection?

yes some no actually a lot of people do care for other peoples collections! > look at other music communities not just Vk were it seems that nobody does.

 

 

 

if you'd actually cared to give previews of some releases you could do it separately, only for those bands that doesn't have any previews at all. 

sure i could but i have a life and not the time to make 10 seperate videos previewing EVERY song on a god damn cd. so for people who are thankful one preview per cd is good enough.

 

 

 

besides of arse-kissers who just want to get something from you nobody will give a shit about it. 

good you mentioned it! i know a person named "Gaz" who wanted to pay me a lot of money just for a cd rip of 3 songs!...  remember that arse-kisser?

 

 

 

but posting such videos is actually sounds like "hey guys check out how my vk-penis has grown up lately" to me.

no its just about showing/shareing your stuff with people who actually care. but thats a really big problem since years within the visual kei community. there are many people *like this specific arse-kisser mentioned above* who drown in jealousy and always give other people hate for it. - you want something, then do something for it and not always whine about everything and make other people responsible for it.

[relentless 254]

^ 10/10. Would read again.

[Champ213 1858]

Could we please keep this civil without needlessly attacking each other? Stick to the topic, don't turn this into personal bitchfights, everyone.

[Zeus 7997]

no its just about showing/shareing your stuff with people who actually care. but thats a really big problem since years within the visual kei community. there are many people *like this specific arse-kisser mentioned above* who drown in jealousy and always give other people hate for it. - you want something, then do something for it and not always whine about everything and make other people responsible for it.

Before I tell you and Gaz to unbunch your panties and take it to PM, I want to address the part I've bolded. I want to do this because there's a misconception I want to clear up and it's something that's been proven to work on this forum.

Sharing your music with people who actually care involves three things: music, sharing, and people. The problem with it when restricted solely to visual kei is that the sharing is inconsistent. Some people hoard the rare music and it eventually becomes lost and no one can ever hear or find it again. Some people share everything freely. If you want to find other people who like the same music you do, you have to make it freely available. But even more than that, there has to be discussion about this music. There are two very underutilized forums in the Artist and Review sections whose purpose is to facilitate discussion. If you wonder why the type of visual kei you like seems to get no attention, go look for all the topics people have started about it and look at the last time someone uploaded an album by one of those artists and wrote a review for one of those artists. It's probably been a while hasn't it? Now switch gears and look at a lot of the K-Pop fans (a good majority of which came from visual kei) and estimate the size of the fandom in comparison to VK. It seems so much bigger because they all talk about it!

The key here is "out of sight, out of mind". I'll touch on that later.

But first, let's jump into some MH history. The year was 2010. Overseas attention for visual kei was on it's way out, as Champ touched on earlier. Activity was declining on MH because a lot of fans were jumping ship to the next fad, but there wasn't any musical spheres here to keep them interested. Thus, people spent less time here as they spent more time exploring new music. CAT5 and I had a problem with this. There is an entire musical scene outside of visual kei in Japan that was getting the shaft and we wanted to fix that. We started by first uploading a lot of new music to the download section. That had limited success. The turnover rate was so fast that by the it hit page two or three no one checked it out anymore. Out of sight, out of mind. So to fix that shortcoming, we tried something new.

This was an effort on the part of a lot of people, many of which went uncredited and who I will thank now because I don't think I ever formally did this at one point. CAT5, Aion, lukrecia, and I started "The Non-Visual Recommendation Thread" which grew to be a 30 page behemoth of a topic filled with sample releases by different bands in Japan that were all non-visual. The idea was that if it was always at the top of the forum and being constantly updated, people would check it out from time to time and find things they liked. There were some issues with it (disappearing posts, MU dying, etc.) but it had it's intended effect of people finding new artists that they wouldn't know that they liked. Because we made a place for it and occasionally wrote reviews in the section, we got all three components we needed: music, sharing, and people.

We expanded this base by starting the end of year lists at the end of 2011. CAT5 and I devised this as an idea to talk about really great albums we liked that didn't get the attention they deserved, got a lot of attention and deserved to be talked about more, or weren't even Japanese but was just great music overall. We got a lot of great feedback from lots of users because it was a combination of visual and not visual artists. There was something for everyone. The topics got hundreds, if not thousands of views and even attracted the attention of some artists we praised. This got more people listening, and more people talking.

Then the staff decided to do something really crazy and split the download forum about a year back. There was always talk about splitting it between visual and non visual music because of reasons, but we were hesitant to do it because we always felt the visual forum would just eclipse the non-visual forum and the latter would die off. By mid 2013, there were enough people here that enjoyed the latter for us to give it a trial run and see how it went. It was only supposed to last for two months. But because there was a clean separation between the two, non-visual music would no longer be buried in the unified download section as it once was. Visual kei music also benefited from this as well. Now that both were easily available for view, people began checking out more non visual kei music. Instead of failing, it's grown and now there's more of a balance here than there has ever been before.

So the moral of the story here is that if CAT5 and I had never decided to do something about the lack of attention non visual music was getting here that fateful day in 2011, MH wouldn't be the way it is today. If you want to promote your preferred style of visual kei, you have to discuss it. And continue discussing it and generate interest in it. Talking about how it's dying is a start but actually talking about the music is better. Music doesn't ever die until people stop listening to it, and the fastest way for that to happen is to have no one be able to hear it and have no place for anyone to talk about it.

Now I know this isn't directly on topic but I feel that it addresses the point being made in this topic accurately enough to belong here. Now you two go play nice.

[doombox 4421]

So grateful for the non-visual section. I'd probably have never become active now without it (as that's basically all I have to contribute). 

And to basically every other point in Zess' post:

 

[Vitne Eveille 65]

A side-note to what Shmilly said about how many people are busy and won't even take the time to like a video... this is so true, but I've only really noticed it on Facebook so far.  On my official musician facebook page, I have asked serious questions that sometimes would only require a simple "yes" or "no" answer, and I would get 8 LIKES...no answers!  Talk about frustrating, lol.

 

I've begun to feel like a personal facebook account is much more powerful, because you can better interact with friends and fans.  The FB Pages are so one-sided and money-thirsty that it is almost not worth using.

 

Kinda off-topic, but kinda relevant lol

[Tetora 625]

This reminds me of the fact that the landscape of entertainment is still changing.

 

People like to use the word `evolving` especially in business pitches. But is it evolving, or is it actually devolving?

 

With the current mediums we use, and the way our lives are, we are multi-tasking, jumping from one thing to another, our attention is being diverted constantly, and we are more stressed out during even our down-time / leisure activities than ever, especially in younger age groups.

 

We go on Youtube and jump from video to video, while browsing or chatting, maybe even doing other things. People are tweeting while watching t.v. people even have chats or facebook open during movies at their house now.

 

So with all this stimulus, stress, and low attention span, along with people able to watch whatever they want, or download any album they want, how much time and attention is being put into things? I, and studies marketing courses have shoved at me for years, would say that people have a greater tendency to jump towards fast videos, quick reads, and things with more of a `pop` feel that instantly grab their attention.

 

If someone is just running through videos, would they be more inclined to listen to a longer, more serious track with nuances, or would they skip it and watch the colorful, flashy one with lots of comedy or sex appeal along with inherent or added controversial material?

 

So with that comes the question of, is it harder to get into the music of many VK bands now, are the videos not what will even interest today`s audience, and even if it does, will the audience care to take the time to make a comment, or join a community, discuss, support etc... with so many other options out there.

 

I think this also favors certain sides of VK prospering in the social universe more than others. The `shock value` has shifted, some things are redundant now, some things are expected, and there are other things popping up that seem to create better responses to new viewers.

 

I myself don`t even often feel like there is a point in commenting in many places, I guess from seeing so many threads on sites fill up with a hundred short repetitive posts in an instant (another site I go on), or Youtube videos only showing certain comments at first glance, and others get buried, along with the fact that so many people throw comments around that it seems like a drop in one cosmic sized bucket to make my own comment. 

 

Then there`s the fact that it feels like more than ever, everything you say and do is watched. It`s all linked to Google accounts, or Facebook, all your friends will see it, or maybe an employer can find it, maybe it`ll embarrass you later, etc...

 

So to summarize that last point, I think there is less willingness for some people to post, and they may need greater incentive to participate. I see many band or group wars for other genres that dominate other areas of music, that VK often doesn`t have (one pop-star versus another, one KPOP company against another) but that really isn`t desirable, even if it does attract attention and comments.