NICKT

upon hearing the previews... I legit hope covid won this fight x

I tend to treat re-recordings and originals as two different songs.  It doesn't bother me when bands re-record their songs as long as it sounds somewhat different or the production is better.  But I honestly can't think of an re-recordings that are carbon copies of their original anyway.  I feel like it's always worth their time because it's probably less effort than writing a new song, and it's something they can put on their new album/single.  However of course that doesn't mean it's worth the fans time or money...
 
My favorite remakes are Etsu to Utsu and Kyoka Suigetsu from Kiryu's 2007-2017 album.  I don't listen to the originals of those songs anymore.  Etsu to Utsu was my favorite Kiryu song after it came out and I never thought they would top it, so I was pleasantly surprised when they did with the re-recording.  
I also love most of the songs from Liphlich's first acoustic album, and I think that's a great example of remaking songs with purpose.  Obviously a lot of changes had to go into making those songs acoustic and I don't think they were remade just to sound better or new. 

because VK is also for children : )

NUL. DIGITAL SINGLE 『KaliMa』 2020/9/23 digital release!!
 
 

The url ends in .io (for some reason) instead of .jp

So first they remove most of their stuff from Spotify and now they have the gall to sell tickets for an online show? That's just laughable. I know they have to make money somehow, but this reaaaaally ain't it.
 
rEqUeStS fRoM oVeRsEaS

the fact is that all of their remakes are better than their original versions and i will give irrefutable proof that you just can not compete with right here:
 
a) more modern recording quality. cutting edge modern editing & recording techinques used by the creme de la creme of western metal and japanese metal alike
b) deeper voice. kyo's screams have never sounded better. he is the japanese mike patton and he DESERVES to show it off because other bands can't compete with that twisted madness
c) old songs are too visual kei. there i said it. you may not like it but its true: now finally these songs are dope enough to actually listen to with your friends who listen to real metal because there are CRAZY riffs and hardcore vocals that don't sound visual kei
d) more poetic lyrics. compare the lyrics for the original tsumi to batsu to the lyrics of tsumi to kisei? yeah.... enough said i think. don't need to elaborate
e) they play them live. honestly - compare the amount of times the band has played the original versions of these songs live after the remakes came out to the amount of times they've played the new versions live. it's obvious even the band KNOWS that these remakes are doper. better. and also more intense & that's why they play them live
 
just my opinion... i dont know why you guys insist on doubting these guys. they gave us sustain the untruth ffs!

ththirteenteen
 

Thirteenteen?

He put out an album last year and he was the vocalist for this season's Kamen Rider opening theme.
Apparently just did a song with pop singer ASCA, so he's been doing stuff pretty regularly.
 

They’ve already made songs in the key of C# in ADADGBE tuning, like Downfall for example. They just use the 4th fret of the low A string (C#) as the root note that they chug on. Utafumi and Ningen wo Kaburu were also like this but they used the 5th fret as the root note so the key was in D. In Different Sense they used the second fret so the key was B. They do this a lot.

I'm holding off listening until they release this on CD.
If it doesn't come out before the next album, I doubt it'll ever be released physically for the masses. At that point, I'll cave.
 
I refuse to pay for mp3s.

We can hope. I'd rather buy a physical version of the release than stream online or buy digitally.

*cough*
According to the potentially erroneous tags in my music library, the following come up when searched for VisualKei/NuMetal:
DEATHGAZE - BLISS OUT
DEATHGAZE - CREATURE
D'espairsRay - MIRROR
D'espairsRay - REDEEMER (this one even I'm doubting already)
DEZERT - 精神科医(拒食症)のスナッフフィルム集
DEZERT - 「暫定的オカルト週刊誌①」
DEZERT - 「最高の食卓」
DEZERT - 完売音源集-暫定的オカルト週刊誌②-
DEZERT - TODAY
Dir en grey - VULGAR
EAT YOU ALIVE - REVIVE
Girugamesh - 【獄-初犯型円盤-】初回限定盤
Girugamesh - 【理性壊乱】-乱調型円盤-
Girugamesh - 13's Reborn
Girugamesh - volcano
Girugamesh - Reason of Crying
Mucc - 朽木の灯
OZ - Versus
OZ - Rouge

Grains of salt, of course.

I'm not good into making topics.
 
Nozomi ex-guitarist announced a simple picture with the ClearVeil logo and with the year 2021. So maybe a revival?
 
 

Get out your shovels, boys, 'cause this is a hell of a grave topic I'm digging up.

So Darrell just put out a new CD and for those who aren't aware it's the current band of DEATHGAZE's final vocalist and main songwriter, the thing in particular worth mentioning is that their recent single also contained a second disc of a bunch of DEATHGAZE re-recordings. Surprised to not see any discussion about it on MH so I thought I'd poke a little.
 
 

I'm not musically articulate enough to actually discuss this stuff outside of surface level observations so I'll just respond to this in particular, this board started as a visual-kei board a long, long time ago but, like me, a lot of older name stays have grown dissatisfied with current visual-kei outputs or needed more and branched out, so you'll get some general Japanese music discussion but still with a major focus on the visual-kei genre in particular.

But aren't they looking to the West just by making pop/rock music and playing pianos, electric guitars, etc.? I sort of get it though. It would be sad it everything became super Americanized.
 
I don't think my impression was that Japan was "less developed," rather that Japanese vocalists choose to focus less on technique, because so many of the vocalists I heard seemed to be trying to make their voice "interesting" or achieve a certain style (such as cutesy girl group vocals). Basically, I had that sense that there was a preponderance of "stylistic" rather than "technical" vocalists in Japan. I'm starting to think my first impression may have been a result of the selection of what I had listened to. 

@NICKT
I think my original post might come off as rather pejorative. This was not my intention. I’m just the sort of person who tends to say many critical or negative-sounding things even when I really like something. It’s a personal flaw that I’m aware of, but clearly still need to work on. In any case. If I thought Japanese music was terrible I wouldn’t have bothered to join a forum to learn about it.
 
I should also clarify that I don’t think superior vocal technique necessarily equals a better singer. Vocal technique is just one of a number of elements that go into singing and how important it is depends on what the singer is trying to do. There are certainly a lot of singers who fail to get the sound they are looking for (or damage their voice trying) because they don’t have the technical ability. On the other hand, there are also singers who may not need much technique for the sound they are going for. Personally, I have to say I tend to be biased towards singers that have some technical proficiency, probably because I come from a more classical background and it can be a little hard to go from Philippe Jaroussky to Bon Iver wannabe #5, but considering how unpopular opera is I’d say most people probably feel the opposite.
 
I agree that the Ameri-centrism of not only the cultural sphere, but pretty much everything, is pretty ridiculous.
 
I think you also raise a good point regarding whether Japanese singers should be held to American (or Western) standards. But I think you should also consider to what extent they are participating in a Western art form. I would never think to look for Western techniques in a traditional Japanese art form. Coming out from a Noh play and saying, “Hmm, the lead wasn’t as really as good as Edward Norton,” is completely ridiculous. But all the things you mention (TV, film, popular music) are the result of American (or Western) forms being adopted (imposed? adopted under duress?) due to Westernization. Thus, some mastery of Western techniques (filmography, Western instruments, etc.) is necessary.
 
Of course, countries will come up with their own versions of these art forms different from Hollywood and judging them based on the expectations you have of a Hollywood production is not always appropriate. For example, something like Hana kimi is clearly a highly stylized manga adaptation (I’ve never picked up a manga in my life, but even I can tell they’re not going for realism and I can recognize elements of that style in other shoujo manga adaptations). I don’t think it could be judged from the same perspective as a serious American show, or even an American comedy, since the acting styles and comedic sense is quite different. Similarly, Korean dramas tend to use a lot of slow-mo. I think this seems quite cheesy from a Western perspective, but after watching quite a few Korean shows you realize that it’s a rather standard element of the style and get used to it. On the music side of things, the visual kei singing is definitely not something you would hear from an American band, even though they are making rock music. In this sense, I would find it hard to compare one of these singers directly to an American singer, since they seem to be trying to do something different. Do I think you can still consider Western vocal technique as one element when evaluating them? Yes, because 1) there are clearly Western influences to their singing style as well 2) some of the singers in the genre (if visual kei is a genre?) do use these techniques and it clearly affects their sound (based on some of the responses here I went and looked up an old performance by Ruki and the difference is very obvious). I’d say something similar about the handful of enka singers that I’ve heard. There’s clearly a combination of Western and Japanese influences.
 
On the other hand, when it comes to someone like Taka, is there anything non-Western about his singing style? I feel that he would pretty much sound like an American pop punk vocalist if he was singing completely in English, hence my comparison to Gerard Way (though the “less interesting” comment is a judgement on artistry, which admittedly does not belong in a discussion of technique). One thing I don’t think I stated clearly is that I don’t think Taka is actually technically subpar to his American counterparts, since pop punk is generally not where you go to look for stellar vocal technique. Rather, it is the fact that so many people seem to think he’s a great vocalist that led me to include him. Basically, I just think his skills are overrated.
 
The last thing I would say is that the “standard” does not necessarily have to be American. For example, when listening to Japanese ballads some of the comparisons that came to mind most were people like Lara Fabian (Belgian) or Park Hyoshin (Korean). Unlike singers in some genres, I tend to expect people singing ballads to have more technical skill, since belting/soaring vocals are some of the hallmark features of ballads (especially modern pop ballads). Though the way I wrote it (almost as an after thought) didn’t make this evident, hearing a number of lackluster ballad performances was actually one of the main things that led me to write this post. (My opinion of Japanese ballads has improved somewhat after I finding a Quora post with some good recommendations.)

It's not even so much the West but more so just the US, and it's a pervasive mentality that manifests in every corner of entertainment(and probably everything else as well). Can't help but compare yourself to the big dogs, especially when it's your competition.

I mean, Japan is the only place on the planet with a majority speaking Japanese so most of the entertainment they consume is produced by themselves for themselves. However an absolute metric fuck-tonne of US content is produced and then almost forced upon the rest of the world. As an Australian, aside from the cornerstones of Australian dramas(Neighbours and Home&Away) I couldn't tell you a single other Australian drama series, but I sure as damn hell could tell you US ones. Even our stars when they get big fuck off to Hollywood because it's viewed as the end goal. (Margot Robbie, of Wolves of Wall Street and Harley Quinn fame, left Neighbours to go to the US.)

You'd think that Japan, by nature of it not speaking English as a major language would be exempt from this mentality but they are still susceptible to it. From the Western acts that tour and sell out the Tokyo Dome repeatedly all the way down to just the immense budgets thrown at CG in movies, you can't compete with Hollywood and it becomes the yardstick we're all measured by. 

I've shown people Japanese dramas and also read comments online that consistently call it out for either being bad or over the top, the music for being simple and generic, especially when it comes to following Western trends they seem to get it way after the fad's gone and apparently only tap into it's surface level.(Or at least that was the impression I got from being eviscerated online sharing a SiM song to an acquaintance.)

When you go and watch the Japanese Godzilla movies and see the man in the rubber suit but then go watch the American ones and it's this gargantuan CGI beast then you can clearly see the different playing fields. Japan's just gotta deal with Japan, and in all honesty it's amazing just for that, but Hollywood and the States has the world's entertainment market by the balls, no doubt.

(Anime's probably the one category where Japan dominates everywhere else and I imagine that's why they're pumping it with so much garbage material because the fans will always lap it up. Western animated materials are mainly kids shows and that comes with a lot of condescending design mentalities so it's never worth the comparison. I was also considering video games as another one that Japan dominates but I'm changing my mind on that. There was an interview with the translator for the GBA FFIV where he said that he gave presentation(s) to the studio on Western video game design. FFXIV also has been wanting Western blood in it's development for a while now, especially in it's raid series where they say they're having immense trouble finding raid designers from the West that can also speak Japanese.)

 

It's not even so much the West but more so just the US, and it's a pervasive mentality that manifests in every corner of entertainment(and probably everything else as well). Can't help but compare yourself to the big dogs, especially when it's your competition.

I mean, Japan is the only place on the planet with a majority speaking Japanese so most of the entertainment they consume is produced by themselves for themselves. However an absolute metric fuck-tonne of US content is produced and then almost forced upon the rest of the world. As an Australian, aside from the cornerstones of Australian dramas(Neighbours and Home&Away) I couldn't tell you a single other Australian drama series, but I sure as damn hell could tell you US ones. Even our stars when they get big fuck off to Hollywood because it's viewed as the end goal. (Margot Robbie, of Wolves of Wall Street and Harley Quinn fame, left Neighbours to go to the US.)

You'd think that Japan, by nature of it not speaking English as a major language would be exempt from this mentality but they are still susceptible to it. From the Western acts that tour and sell out the Tokyo Dome repeatedly all the way down to just the immense budgets thrown at CG in movies, you can't compete with Hollywood and it becomes the yardstick we're all measured by. 

I've shown people Japanese dramas and also read comments online that consistently call it out for either being bad or over the top, the music for being simple and generic, especially when it comes to following Western trends they seem to get it way after the fad's gone and apparently only tap into it's surface level.(Or at least that was the impression I got from being eviscerated online sharing a SiM song to an acquaintance.)

When you go and watch the Japanese Godzilla movies and see the man in the rubber suit but then go watch the American ones and it's this gargantuan CGI beast then you can clearly see the different playing fields. Japan's just gotta deal with Japan, and in all honesty it's amazing just for that, but Hollywood and the States has the world's entertainment market by the balls, no doubt.

(Anime's probably the one category where Japan dominates everywhere else and I imagine that's why they're pumping it with so much garbage material because the fans will always lap it up. Western animated materials are mainly kids shows and that comes with a lot of condescending design mentalities so it's never worth the comparison. I was also considering video games as another one that Japan dominates but I'm changing my mind on that. There was an interview with the translator for the GBA FFIV where he said that he gave presentation(s) to the studio on Western video game design. FFXIV also has been wanting Western blood in it's development for a while now, especially in it's raid series where they say they're having immense trouble finding raid designers from the West that can also speak Japanese.)

 

It's not even so much the West but more so just the US, and it's a pervasive mentality that manifests in every corner of entertainment(and probably everything else as well). Can't help but compare yourself to the big dogs, especially when it's your competition.

I mean, Japan is the only place on the planet with a majority speaking Japanese so most of the entertainment they consume is produced by themselves for themselves. However an absolute metric fuck-tonne of US content is produced and then almost forced upon the rest of the world. As an Australian, aside from the cornerstones of Australian dramas(Neighbours and Home&Away) I couldn't tell you a single other Australian drama series, but I sure as damn hell could tell you US ones. Even our stars when they get big fuck off to Hollywood because it's viewed as the end goal. (Margot Robbie, of Wolves of Wall Street and Harley Quinn fame, left Neighbours to go to the US.)

You'd think that Japan, by nature of it not speaking English as a major language would be exempt from this mentality but they are still susceptible to it. From the Western acts that tour and sell out the Tokyo Dome repeatedly all the way down to just the immense budgets thrown at CG in movies, you can't compete with Hollywood and it becomes the yardstick we're all measured by. 

I've shown people Japanese dramas and also read comments online that consistently call it out for either being bad or over the top, the music for being simple and generic, especially when it comes to following Western trends they seem to get it way after the fad's gone and apparently only tap into it's surface level.(Or at least that was the impression I got from being eviscerated online sharing a SiM song to an acquaintance.)

When you go and watch the Japanese Godzilla movies and see the man in the rubber suit but then go watch the American ones and it's this gargantuan CGI beast then you can clearly see the different playing fields. Japan's just gotta deal with Japan, and in all honesty it's amazing just for that, but Hollywood and the States has the world's entertainment market by the balls, no doubt.

(Anime's probably the one category where Japan dominates everywhere else and I imagine that's why they're pumping it with so much garbage material because the fans will always lap it up. Western animated materials are mainly kids shows and that comes with a lot of condescending design mentalities so it's never worth the comparison. I was also considering video games as another one that Japan dominates but I'm changing my mind on that. There was an interview with the translator for the GBA FFIV where he said that he gave presentation(s) to the studio on Western video game design. FFXIV also has been wanting Western blood in it's development for a while now, especially in it's raid series where they say they're having immense trouble finding raid designers from the West that can also speak Japanese.)

 

I'm not Japanese, but I always have this kind of weird ethnic betrayal feeling when I notice Japanese artists looking for the West to get better in any feature of their projects. Absurd feeling, but lol.
 
Anyway, 2020 and still Japan has less developed theory and technology musicwise? I'm surprised.
 

When it comes to trying to discuss these things about Japanese music is that majority of the online western communities that will engage the discussion are into alternative genres and will be incredibly biased. That's how you often get lists of "best voices in Japan" that'll top out with the Gazette or Dir en grey if not completely filled with just VK bands.

Even just going through this topic, I mostly skimmed it and saw two posts that discussed artists I wouldn't put into alternative genres and even then, Daoko is kind of her own thing.

When it comes to vocals, my mind always goes to one of the singers of EXILE, Atsushi. A couple years back he left and went to America, putting the group on hold solely so he could get experience and grow as a vocalist outside of Japan.


EXILE would probably be my go to if I wanted to put forward an artist that I thought could contend for at least having acceptable vocal ability on a global stage, but I'll be honest and say that's only because my first pick you already cut in your opening post.

The song ''X'' is actually about how he got his tubes tied and Yoshiki insists on performing it every time just to assert his dominance